Horses - how to improve difficulty

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Make the rider dies when get dehorse, just like in medieval total war

Not die, it'd make aiming at the horse even stronger than it is now, just make rider lose health depending on speed bonus of the killing hit.

[_Tak_]

In M:TW cav is effective against archers. Your point is invalid.

Not die, it'd make aiming at the horse even stronger than it is now, just make rider lose health depending on speed bonus of the killing hit.

It was a joke, it will be the final stage of nerfing Cav, where all Cav will rage respec back to infantry

[Rheinhardt]

See, nobody could tell it was a joke. You gotta do it like this.

Horses should randomly fall over crippled from stepping in varmit holes and shattering a leg.
Wounded horses should force a repair proc at the end of the round and require a month to recover.
Dead horses should be removed entirely from your inventory or replaced with dried meat.
Horses charging the enemy should randomly panic and run away, resisting commands for several seconds.
You should randomly fall off your horse based on your riding skill. Riding 10 will be required to avoid ever falling.
Horses hit on one side of the body should start pulling in that direction.
You should have to pay a daily maintenance fee for food and water for the horse.
Horses that run head-on into pikes should be impaled on the pike, rendering it useless.
As a horse gallops, your aim point for ranged attacks should fluctuate to simulate the uneven ride.

Actually I like that last one.

[CrazyCracka420]

I own six horses irl and I have been riding for twenty years. I've competed on horseback, I've made a living on horseback. All suggestions that horses should be more sluggish or response have obviously never ridden a tuned horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvuSvwb8DPg&feature=fvwrel Fuck the music, mute it and watch. That's how agile a horse can be. The horse is motherfucking side stepping. I'd like to see that shit. Diagonal movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvuSvwb8DPg&feature=fvwrel No hands. Sudden stops can be done on horseback, more or less.

Personally, I think the idea that a slight slope is going to radically slow down a horse is also ridiculous. Just my couple cents.

That's awesome, my favorite has to be at 1 minute when the horse is juking back and forth like an American football running back.

And to people saying "that's not possible" for warhorses that are much larger and wearing armor, just a couple things:  not all horses in c-rpg have armor.  And horses were much smaller in the middle ages than they are now.

Also it's not like these horses and knights weren't training their entire lives...(not saying they trained together, but they both were very highly trained for a specific role).

[Paniolo808]

How to improve difficulty on horses? Make it more skill-based.

1) Remove charge damage altogether. Just bumping someone to death simply isn't a fun game mechanic. It also doesn't require much skill at all (no timing needed + unblockable)

I'm sorry, but I've been trampled by a horse. It freaking hurts, and I'm not talking about a horse stepping on my foot. I'm talking about being knocked down by a stallion and then getting my slow self trampled. It's a thousand plus lbs animal, something that heavy running into you around 20 to 30 mph is gonna hurt.
And I think your wording is dishonest, because it is fun to bump people to death, really fun. I think you're refering to being bumped to death.

2) Nerf knockdown a bit. Make it shorter and less reliable. Allow people who jump aside to get up faster, but let people who just stand there still be knocked down long like they are now.

Again, thousand plus lbs animal. It's more than likely gonna knock you down. In my opinion I think they ought to INCREASE knock-down, at least when at speed. Also, being airborne shouldn't make you more resistant, it should make you less. When you're on the ground, you have balance. When you're airborne, you're at the mercy of momentum. And the momentum of a speeding horse is going to radically alter your trajectory and make landing on all two feet more difficult. This suggestion is silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NAMVmcwDXMo#t=98s Alright. This is a fantastic video that should demonstrate that hills don't affect horses like they do in Mount & Blade. Keep watching for an epic cliff descent. This is all real footage. This video also demonstrates that 'rider should die when horse dies is nonsense'. See that horse rolling over the rider? Yep, I've had that happen to me too, granted on flat ground but similar speed. Scraped some skin off my elbow as the horse went down and over me but was otherwise was uninjured.

Alot of these suggestions I'm seeing seem to be coming from infantry types. Also from people with no equestrian background. To be honest, I find the horses in CRPG to already be clumsy and sluggish. And frustrating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&NR=1&v=XZ8d9ByD5L4 I think this is an ultimate demonstration of equine ability. Horses have a pretty damn decent from nothing to ZOOM speed burst. The reason I use a steppe or desert horse as much is because I think the manueverability on the other horses is absurdly sluggish. It even demonstrates some lancing. Bear in mind that these horses that I'm posting descend from old style warhorses. In war, you didn't use the same broke down nag you'd put your five year old on while on vacation. You used an animal trained throughout it's life for battle. You know one thing lacking in CRPG/Warband? Horse's kicking, striking, and biting the enemy. Warhorses were trained to do that. Not gonna happen, but think about how lacking horses already are before considering nerfing.

In my opinion?  Cav doesn't need nerfing.
Again, this coming from someone who actually rides horses irl.

[Dexxtaa]

Nerf archers.

How I feel when I'm chasing one around a tree.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Torben]

(click to show/hide)

I'm sorry, but I've been trampled by a horse. It freaking hurts, and I'm not talking about a horse stepping on my foot. I'm talking about being knocked down by a stallion and then getting my slow self trampled. It's a thousand plus lbs animal, something that heavy running into you around 20 to 30 mph is gonna hurt.
And I think your wording is dishonest, because it is fun to bump people to death, really fun. I think you're refering to being bumped to death.

Again, thousand plus lbs animal. It's more than likely gonna knock you down. In my opinion I think they ought to INCREASE knock-down, at least when at speed. Also, being airborne shouldn't make you more resistant, it should make you less. When you're on the ground, you have balance. When you're airborne, you're at the mercy of momentum. And the momentum of a speeding horse is going to radically alter your trajectory and make landing on all two feet more difficult. This suggestion is silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NAMVmcwDXMo#t=98s Alright. This is a fantastic video that should demonstrate that hills don't affect horses like they do in Mount & Blade. Keep watching for an epic cliff descent. This is all real footage. This video also demonstrates that 'rider should die when horse dies is nonsense'. See that horse rolling over the rider? Yep, I've had that happen to me too, granted on flat ground but similar speed. Scraped some skin off my elbow as the horse went down and over me but was otherwise was uninjured.

Alot of these suggestions I'm seeing seem to be coming from infantry types. Also from people with no equestrian background. To be honest, I find the horses in CRPG to already be clumsy and sluggish. And frustrating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&NR=1&v=XZ8d9ByD5L4 I think this is an ultimate demonstration of equine ability. Horses have a pretty damn decent from nothing to ZOOM speed burst. The reason I use a steppe or desert horse as much is because I think the manueverability on the other horses is absurdly sluggish. It even demonstrates some lancing. Bear in mind that these horses that I'm posting descend from old style warhorses. In war, you didn't use the same broke down nag you'd put your five year old on while on vacation. You used an animal trained throughout it's life for battle. You know one thing lacking in CRPG/Warband? Horse's kicking, striking, and biting the enemy. Warhorses were trained to do that. Not gonna happen, but think about how lacking horses already are before considering nerfing.

In my opinion?

  Cav doesn't need nerfing...

Although I cherish your video input a lot (never new horses could descend like that, woha!)  you are missing the point.

-this is not a nerf thread,  au contrair:  it is a thread which is seeking for answers in how to making horseriding more skillbased.  All in all that will result in a buff for dedicated riders,
and only a nerf concerning the easy part of being a cav.
 and this is the part where you should chip in as an experienced rider!

that a horse trampeling you will hurt and knock you down is out of question.  phase just wants to balance the game.  after all,  we have to keep it fun for everyone. 
and I am not on your line:  I have been cav for ever,  and I detest killing people by bumping them,  it literally pisses me off to get a kill like that. 

my take on this is unchanged:  I`d love to see the actual horseriding changed,  by taking its linear directions,  but instead adding the sidestepping and movement capabilities beyond what is possible atm.  in return take away combat capabilities at high speeds (not taking the high speeds tho!):  just like you cant couch a lance at low speeds,  it should not be possible to attack  at full gallop.  (resulting in a heavy cav buff,  decreasing ninja cav that kills before its prey even knows about it)

[Thoric]

Deployable caltrops.

[BlueKnight]

Holy fucking crap! I knew they are agile,  but fucks sake.  sidestepping like a crab and doin faints like an american football player.  yeeehaaaw,  I want that!
thanks for the awesome videos.

How do you think,  the skill requirement for cav could be upped?

Give cav more tricks so it will he harder to master them all. It will force cav to use more especially in 1 vs 1. Inf has a lot of tricks with feints, chambers, kicking, holding. They can also evoke the sound of release while releasing and canceling their attack. All the features make it harder to master and this makes playing inf more skill based I think. Give cav something more than "W" and Left mouse button so 1vs1 cav won't be just straight_charge_random_shit. yeh ctrl-J is nearly useless in fact :/

Also increase dmg on legs of the horses because it's so realistic but fuck the realistic features that could actually help cav lol...

[Slamz]

I think it all comes down to collision.

The stamina/spurring idea is a bit silly because I'm pretty sure a horse can run like the wind for 6 minutes.  It's not like they are fat American horses who need to stop and catch their breath after a 30 second run.

But collision...

Horse vs house.
Horse vs tree.
Horse vs horse.
Horse vs too many infantry.

These should all be a lot more dramatic than they currently are.

In fact, in single player, doesn't each infantry you hit slow you down?  You can't just plow into 20 of them and keep going like nothing happened but I see people do that in cRPG.  We dumbed it down?!


Managing your collisions should be the #1 difference between pro cav and noob cav.  If you hit a rock at a gallop you should go ass over teakettle and the world will know you for a noob.

[Bryggan]

I would like to see a horse be able to kick infantry behind, and bite infantry in front, and side step and lunge and all that shit, and be so trained that the rider can sort of let the animal do the thinking while he focuses on killing.  It's more realistic, and probably the fact that is why anyone who could afford a war horse had one.  In the middle ages a good warhorse with a rider decked out in full plate armour was mega-OP, but only a very few could afford that.  The rest just accepted that, and died when encountering one.

But since cRPG has a sort of communist pay out system and everyone is equal we just can't have cav OP.  I suppose the only way we on the servers are not equal is by skill.  So if we complicate riding and mounted combat to such a degree that only the elite-est of the elite can master it, well those of us who are rich in shild but poor in skill better get a shield and accept our lot in life.  Like good yeoman infantry did.

[Overdriven]

and I detest killing people by bumping them,  it literally pisses me off to get a kill like that. 

I love killing people like that as an HA. Pumping someone full of arrows and finishing them off with a hefty courser bump (does more damage than my arrows ffs) is o so satisfying. If it wasn't for that bump damage a lot of HA's would get a lot less kills due to HA's real damage being so low in comparison.

In fact, in single player, doesn't each infantry you hit slow you down?  You can't just plow into 20 of them and keep going like nothing happened but I see people do that in cRPG.  We dumbed it down?!

That's what happens in crpg as well 

[ThePoopy]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Son Of Odin]

What about alternating/floating lance angle for lancers? The higher the speed the smaller the angle. Definetly would add a lot of depth to lancing. When you are not moving, your angle is the old non nerfed lance angle. Then when you get more speed it shrinks to the current state. Just throwing ideas here.

[Leshma]

Makes sense. I've used to play 3 or 4 riding lancer cav, it was decent because of wide lance angle. Right now, making such build is suicide. You won't be able to kill other cavalry and you're too slow which means your backstabbing potential is weak.