Horses - how to improve difficulty

[Gurnisson]

Remove the insane blocking area you get from horseback. Arrows to horse's face being sucked up by the shield of the rider, and pikes to the horse's body sucked up by the rider's shield/down block is getting very old.

I have no issues with cav except for that one right there, which is just completely broken.

[Riddaren]

FYI: I have played this game for very long and I have played all classes.

Personally I think the game itself is very balanced and fun as it is now. The problem is the servers which have too many horses and archers.
If you can add restrictions to the number of cavalry players and archers it would be the best thing to do.

I do however welcome changes that would make cavalry harder to play. I do it for every class. Here are some of my thoughts on this:


CHANGE

Won't make it much harder but will decrease the number of cavalry players which is what we want:
Make 1 riding cost 2 skill points instead of 1 (eg: 7 riding = 14 skill points = 2 more PS for an infantry player)
You will have to give free respec to all characters, even those without riding skill or it would be unfair.

Decrease bump damage of horses
I think it's enough that the infantry guy gets knocked down. Decrease bump damage to 50%?

Increase hit points of horses
Increased hit points might bring horsemen closer to combat (which would mean less backstabbing)

"but make people fly off their horse when they hit a wall or another horse etc.." /joey_bologna
This is a great idea if possible. It will make it harder but also more fun.

"Also let cav pick up other players, but decrease horse speed when they do." /joey_bologna
Why not? If possible add it. But don't just decrease horse speed. Need to nerf attack of rider as well.

"I don't know if it's possible to realise but maybe we should add an autonomous thinking of the horses concerning potential harm. Simply the idea that if they're coming closer to pointed objects they realize danger and independently from the rider decide to slow down." /Prinz_Karl
I have had ideas about something like this as well... You really have to be careful with things like this (if it's even possible).
Just imagine how much a 2 hander would cry if his +3 Danish greatsword didn't obey him 1/10 attacks.


DON'T CHANGE

Leave the speed and maneouver of horses alone
It's fine as it is and very uneccessary to force players to adapt to such changes (not just for riders but for everyone).

Rider should NOT be stunned if horses bumps
This is a very bad idea as it is a HUGE change to game mechanics. If it is implemented once again you might as well remove left and right swings from all classes.

Keep the ability to attack while jumping
This takes skill and is not something you do all the time. It would just make the game less fun if it got removed. It would not nerf horsemen.

(click to show/hide)

"Let cavalry stick playing in first person." /Plavor
No trolling please...

[Piok]

Remove force field from riders shield protecting lot of space even on horse.

[Grumbs]

I think it shouldn't feel like there is a telepathic link between rider and horse. There should be a delay before the animal responds so people have to plan their approach a bit more. They should behave a bit more like an animal, a bit more erratic and hard to control, especially when you have a weapon chambered.

You should have to consider the welfare of the horse when riding into people, and when you face plant into the ground after your horse dies you should take some damage. The horse should not behave like a real players body when it dies too, absorbing hits that should hit the rider on the ground

[Hobb]

Adding horse emotions is The stupidest thing i have ever heard of.

The goal is to make cav vs cav funner and more reliable (less of a role of the dice)

1) make cav have higher top speed that kicks in after 10 secs or so of current top speed
2) add crash damage for running into shit including other horses
3 make the rider experience a "horse ride" not a motorcycle ride. With every stride a horse takes the rider should be rising up and down same with the lance or sword.
4) adding a horse strafe mechanic/animation will buff sword cav and give cav more options fighting infantry

5)finally, the horses need to be solid objects. You shouldnt be able to bump slash anything because the weapon always goes through the horses neck with the swing.

[MrShine]

No one said QWOP yet?

I vote QWOP

(click to show/hide)

As others said a bit, have speed & momentum count for more... basically make it harder to control the horse.

I think it would also be cool if reaction speed/consistent command following is based on riding skill.  IE if you have low riding you might want to be going straight but your horse will be wobbling a little bit and you might not be as adept at cutting those sharp corners on command.  High riding on the other hand has more mastery of the horse you are riding.  This could reward those who are a) more controlled and b) higher riding skill to maneuver trickier spots, whereas the worse riders would have to be confined to the more open plains type areas

[Chagan_Arslan]

1. add a psychology effects to the game (horses and infantry)

examples:
- low riding skill of a rider would cause horse to sometime ignore riders commands in front of a danger (suicide charge into pikes)
- when 3+ horses charge infantry, infantry can be scared and players would have a chance to loose control temporarily over their characters

2. add what prinze_karl said

I don't know if it's possible to realise but maybe we should add an autonomous thinking of the horses concerning potential harm. Simply the idea that if they're coming closer to pointed objects they realize danger and independently from the rider decide to slow down. The game already has implemented this but not the way I mean. The horse shouldn't even reach the spear, pike or whatever but it should stop considerably earlier so that it doesn't suffer any damage.

currently when we hit the wall we have that cheap animation of rearing, which i think is there to show that horse wouldnt ride itself into wall - hence it rears on impact

3. when on very slow speed or when standing still add biting enemy in front and kicking enemy in the back that attacks the horse (horse would do it on its own)

4. use this VIDEO as a reference to horse speed and maneuver not what we have right now ingame

5. remove ctrl+j when riding fast, make it only useable when horse stands still

6. i would say old lance angle would improve skill of lancer vs lancer but it would be too harsh for 1h cav i guess (when it was that lancers where anti cav and 1h anti inf)

7. make rider able to fall of his saddle, when recieving a heavy blow ala Deluge mod

[Mlekce]

Little delay between commands would be ok,colliding with objects dealing dmg would be nice too,and i would stop there.
Maybie moving of horse could be controled buy mouse movement like in assassins creed?

[Rebelyell]

FYI: I have played this game for very long and I have played all classes.

Personally I think the game itself is very balanced and fun as it is now. The problem is the servers which have too many horses and archers.
If you can add restrictions to the number of cavalry players and archers it would be the best thing to do.

I do however welcome changes that would make cavalry harder to play. I do it for every class. Here are some of my thoughts on this:


CHANGE

Won't make it much harder but will decrease the number of cavalry players which is what we want:
Make 1 riding cost 2 skill points instead of 1 (eg: 7 riding = 14 skill points = 2 more PS for an infantry player)
You will have to give free respec to all characters, even those without riding skill or it would be unfair.

Decrease bump damage of horses
I think it's enough that the infantry guy gets knocked down. Decrease bump damage to 50%?

Increase hit points of horses
Increased hit points might bring horsemen closer to combat (which would mean less backstabbing)

"but make people fly off their horse when they hit a wall or another horse etc.." /joey_bologna
This is a great idea if possible. It will make it harder but also more fun.

"Also let cav pick up other players, but decrease horse speed when they do." /joey_bologna
Why not? If possible add it. But don't just decrease horse speed. Need to nerf attack of rider as well.

"I don't know if it's possible to realise but maybe we should add an autonomous thinking of the horses concerning potential harm. Simply the idea that if they're coming closer to pointed objects they realize danger and independently from the rider decide to slow down." /Prinz_Karl
I have had ideas about something like this as well... You really have to be careful with things like this (if it's even possible).
Just imagine how much a 2 hander would cry if his +3 Danish greatsword didn't obey him 1/10 attacks.


DON'T CHANGE

Leave the speed and maneouver of horses alone
It's fine as it is and very uneccessary to force players to adapt to such changes (not just for riders but for everyone).

Rider should NOT be stunned if horses bumps
This is a very bad idea as it is a HUGE change to game mechanics. If it is implemented once again you might as well remove left and right swings from all classes.

Keep the ability to attack while jumping
This takes skill and is not something you do all the time. It would just make the game less fun if it got removed. It would not nerf horsemen.

(click to show/hide)

"Let cavalry stick playing in first person." /Plavor
No trolling please...

that

[Teeth]

4. use this VIDEO as a reference to horse speed and maneuver not what we have right now ingame

I'm sure you'd love that, the Arabian is bad enough. We are speaking war horses here so this is not really top notch reference material.

[Prinz_Karl]

Remaking cavalry should be focused around one principle - cavalry charge is the main weapon, not zig-zagging between enemies and stabbing unaware people. More like actual horses, less helicopter gunship.

Therefore, riders should have a triggerable "charge" ability with long cooldown, which accelerates the horse, makes it a lot less manueverable but also the bump should be deadly and the horse itself way less vulnerable during it to anything except anti-cavalry weapons. So group of riders charging together means there's teeth and bones to collect if they catch spear-less infantry in open fields. Something similar to current "shield +1" etc. mechanics could be used so that horses which are charging in group don't instantly die from fatal wounds, though they do die after completing the charge. On the other hand, if cavalryman makes wrong decision and commits to a charge against pikes, he will die since he won't be able to insta-stop and ride away.

This obviously requires 1) making lone horseman way less maneuverable and durable when not charging than he is now  2) removing attacking while in air for infantry and general reduction of jump height and distance. Less monkeying, more thinking, on both sides.

Good idea. I guess the main factor that is influencing this is the inertia of horse which we should increase. By the way I used to know horses way more massive than in game.

So increasing inertia of the horse simply means increasing its mass, this would have the effect that the horse

-is less controllable/maneuverable because it's so fat

-is causing more damage (higher momentun)

-is louder so it's more frightening

I think that's the simpliest way to do it.

[Sauce]

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[Torben]

...how we should do horses when we do them from scratch.

-give horses the ability to sidestep at low speeds with two new directional buttons like "x" and "shift"
-make horses come alive by giving them random movements that the rider has to counter,  especially striving left and right and shying.
-make those random movements more noticeable with lower tear horses
-give them stamina for aforementioned reasons
            -or-
 give them a charge mode with cooldown,   having a high maneuverability penalty but a great speed bonus whilst their basic speed is nerfed greatly
 (example: basic courser speed 40, maneuver 41;  charging speed 50,  maneuver 31)
-make their corpses crush trough and in return make them a lot more fragile vs anti-cav weapons aaaand make the rider take a high amount of damage.

pros:
-increasing the mods mood by having horses whicker and move constantly,  by making cav charges possible because of crush through corpses that level the field for the following horses instead of the rearing that is done now
- increase riding difficulty and introducing a new tactical element by giving them stamina or limited charge

badabing badabang

[masasa]

Don't change the fundamentals of how you control the horse(adding more delay on commands and making horses unrealistically slow and hard to turn just means cav becomes less skill intensive and you get a lot more friendly bumps and team kills, and if you go too far you might accidentally kill the whole class), instead make other changes to add more dynamics to playing cav:

- Add stamina bar for horse. To reach full speed and to accelerate fast from slow speed on a horse you need to press a button, your stamina goes down while pressing the button. Every time you jump your stamina goes down. Every time you bump someone you lose stamina. Every time you stop your horse you slowly gain stamina. Mind you the difference between "full speed-uses stamina" and "normal speed-dont use stamina" should not be very big, but enough to make it relevant. When you run out of stamina you can't go full speed with a horse,  it takes longer to accelerate to normal speed, you can't jump and your bumps do less damage and your horse gets slowed down more when bumping inf.

- Horse takes damage and maybe dies if it runs to an object at high speed.
- Rider falls down from horse if horse runs into an obstacle with high speed. Horse rears and rider stays on when horse runs into an obstacle with low speed.
- Add damage to rider when he falls of the horse.

[Turboflex]

an easy one is to make riders take heavy fall damage if horse is killed. based on speed. will add consequencesto horsedeath and force them to be more careful.