Author Topic: Horses - how to improve difficulty  (Read 25941 times)

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Offline chadz

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Horses - how to improve difficulty
« on: July 01, 2012, 02:59:28 pm »
+19
So we were discussing horses yesterday, and were trying to come up with ideas how to change horses in general. Note - this is in no way a balance thread, so if you think horses are OP or UP, and feel you have to communicate this, please, gtfo.

For everyone else - what changes could be done to increase the player skill needed to ride a horse? Right now, it's W to accelerate, S to decelerate. Therefore, it's more like a motorbike than a horse. Maybe someone who has done real riding has some insight how we could translate rider skill into a game mechanic? Riding should be difficulty in itself, just as flying a plane in a game would be. Riding needs more nuances.

Anyone got some ideas.

Offline Lord_Panos

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 03:04:46 pm »
-17
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:17:42 pm by Lord_Panos »
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Offline chadz

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 03:07:42 pm »
-1
Let me rephrase: Don't think about how we should change horses.

Think about how we should do horses when we do them from scratch.

Offline rustyspoon

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 03:13:41 pm »
+7
Just making momentum more of a factor would help out a lot in that regard. Even a well-trained horse that responds instantly to your cues takes some time to turn, slow down and accelerate.

Also, this kind of depends how much coding you're able to put into it. Instead of the movement buttons directly controlling the horse, what if each button corresponded to specific leg movement. Tapping "A" makes you kick the horses left flank. "D" kicks the right flank. "W" spurs the horse forward. The more and faster you tap, the faster the horse responds, though heavy tapping can piss the horse off or do damage.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:17:04 pm by rustyspoon »
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Offline _Tak_

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 03:13:46 pm »
+1
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:40:51 pm by AlexTheDragon »

Offline Frell

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 03:13:54 pm »
+34
I suggested spurring stamina similar to Red Dead Redemption, so riders have to choose when to get their horse to go fast and more timing is involved.  Too much forceful spurring could kill the horse or damage it badly.


Also make hitting objects take damage, so steering and aiming takes more skill
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 02:03:34 am by Frell »

Offline Teeth

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 03:16:49 pm »
+10
The only simple thing I can think off is adding a slight delay between pressing buttons and the horse moving, it is an animal you are riding. Maybe getting more riding skill should decrease this delay.

I'm guessing you want a more complex control scheme, but seems to me that would be horribly annoying. Like pressing left and right really fast to move forward like a silly minigame. Maybe pressing Q and E to move the rider's body up and down, I believe proper horseriding requires you to do that in the right rhythm. Ingame doing it right could translate into getting more maneuver and top speed. You would lack fingers though.

Would be interesting, focusing on riding the horse could make you move faster than they guy chasing you who also has to focus on attacking you for example.

Offline joey_bologna

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2012, 03:21:51 pm »
-3
Make horses faster, but make people fly off their horse when they hit a wall or another horse etc.. Also let cav pick up other players, but decrease horse speed when they do.

Offline Tot.

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 03:42:29 pm »
+23
Remaking cavalry should be focused around one principle - cavalry charge is the main weapon, not zig-zagging between enemies and stabbing unaware people. More like actual horses, less helicopter gunship.

Therefore, riders should have a triggerable "charge" ability with long cooldown, which accelerates the horse, makes it a lot less manueverable but also the bump should be deadly and the horse itself way less vulnerable during it to anything except anti-cavalry weapons. So group of riders charging together means there's teeth and bones to collect if they catch spear-less infantry in open fields. Something similar to current "shield +1" etc. mechanics could be used so that horses which are charging in group don't instantly die from fatal wounds, though they do die after completing the charge. On the other hand, if cavalryman makes wrong decision and commits to a charge against pikes, he will die since he won't be able to insta-stop and ride away.

This obviously requires 1) making lone horseman way less maneuverable and durable when not charging than he is now  2) removing attacking while in air for infantry and general reduction of jump height and distance. Less monkeying, more thinking, on both sides.
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Offline Prinz_Karl

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 03:44:52 pm »
+4
I don't know if it's possible to realise but maybe we should add an autonomous thinking of the horses concerning potential harm. Simply the idea that if they're coming closer to pointed objects they realize danger and independently from the rider decide to slow down. The game already has implemented this but not the way I mean. The horse shouldn't even reach the spear, pike or whatever but it should stop considerably earlier so that it doesn't suffer any damage.

It's historically confirmed that horses jumped up before the tips of spears or just ran around them because they were coved.

Offline Brrrak

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 03:45:03 pm »
+3
If it's at all possible, perhaps horse turning (maneuverability) should be tied to the current speed. A horse as a trot should be able to turn quite easily and quite well, but at full gallop, needs to lean into the turn and can't really do a proper 90 degree or 180 turn without slowing down first.  The 180 part could even tie into horse rearing*, which you definitely shouldn't be able to do at full gallop if you want to stay on Ol' Bessie.  All in all, player skill should allow horsemen with skill and practice to maneuver almost as much as they can presently, if you're taking the semi-realism approach that I saw alluded to in the OP.

*Perhaps make it possible to actually turn a full 180 degrees using the momentum of a rear, but make it unattractive-enough an option to leave it sort of a last-ditch maneuver if "Oh shit, a wall/pointy thing/open ditch!"
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:52:07 pm by Brrrak »

Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 03:50:18 pm »
0
I suggested spurring stamina similar to Red Dead Redemption, so riders have to choose when to get their horse to go fast and more timing is involved.  Too much forceful spurring could kill the horse or damage it badly.


Also make hitting objects take damage, so steering and aiming takes more skill ;)

Interesting, i guess this could work
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 03:50:48 pm »
+7
Make the pointed stakes present in many maps actually damage horses if possible. If used properly by map makers it makes a whole area of the map a deathtrap for cav, as it is they're just really porous objects you can navigate through relatively easily. Running fullspeed into walls, trees, rocks, hedges, etc should also do damage to the horse, if not kill it outright.
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Offline Plavor

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 03:51:19 pm »
-9
Pretty easy change in my opinion :

Let cavalry stick playing in first person.

No rider sees himself, i tried to play as a first person cav, it is pretty hard and requires skill.
Also you cant be aware of all ppl so cav should just use first person which is at least for most of them a challenge.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Horses - how to improve difficulty
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 03:53:01 pm »
+6
First person is horribly bad even as melee. It's hard because first person is a half assed perspective that wasn't meant to be used beyond maybe ranged weapons. You could make the same case for every weapon used in cRPG and it would make as much sense.
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