Author Topic: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.  (Read 13259 times)

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Offline SirCymro_Crusader

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2012, 01:33:37 pm »
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Being able to block in native duel is absolutely vital. If you miss a single block, you're often dead (sometimes two depending on how marginal the hits are). Blocking is also harder, so the skill ceiling is higher.

Native battle is sadly almost all 1h based, since ranged is so powerful. It's a shame that shields don't require some sort of manual blocking. It would greatly increase the skill required to usefully contribute in native battle.

It maybe vital in some cases however nearly everybody takes a shield, 2H/polearm (except war spear) cant outspam the shielders, most high tier shields  rarely break in fights as its always sword and board. Natiive combat is faster paced because people die quicker but its a lot less exciting, and youve got the nutters in clans like IG who have 5 hour training sessions.

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #76 on: June 23, 2012, 03:19:12 pm »
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It maybe vital in some cases however nearly everybody takes a shield, 2H/polearm (except war spear) cant outspam the shielders, most high tier shields  rarely break in fights as its always sword and board. Natiive combat is faster paced because people die quicker but its a lot less exciting, and youve got the nutters in clans like IG who have 5 hour training sessions.
I can't stand native battle or siege servers. From the class/equipment system down to the weapon balance. On the other hand, I enjoy native (fastest speed, specifically) duel servers so much more than crpg duel servers. Still, both have a lot of room for improvement. I don't exactly like getting 1 shot in native 50% of the time, and I don't think anyone actually believes crpg battle/siege(especially the latter) is perfect.

Without having a thrust though, I can't say I've noticed the turning speed nerf on much other than when I fight pikemen. I like to chamber or block then immediately overhead, so when they're jumping around, turning to hit them becomes rather difficult. Not that it's a bad thing, I'm just not sure it's necessary; since I am then forced to delay my attack, they're allowed extra time to turn farther before releasing their second thrust. This means the situation hasn't really changed too drastically, is all.
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Offline Turboflex

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2012, 04:32:10 pm »
+2
1h overhead is really useless now with a short weapon.

My axe is 73 length (I also us 53 length throwing weapons in melee) so I am using it at very close range and my target is ALWAYS moving quickly, when I made a hit with overhead my target was commonly 30-45 degrees off from where it started. Now that I can no longer make anywhere near that adjustment and am constantly missing.

This fix went way too far to nerf lolstab and overhead toedrags. I knw cmp is working on adjustments, but please take into account weapon length AND weight when you do. Short OR light should no be effected, only long AND heavy. A lot of short weps are heavy, and they need overhead turning the most to actually land blows.

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #78 on: June 23, 2012, 05:16:41 pm »
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Short OR light should no be effected, only long AND heavy.
Just because a weapon is relatively light, doesn't mean it's balanced and thus easy to to control. Imo, all "long" weapons and all unbalanced weapons, should be affected.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #79 on: June 23, 2012, 05:21:39 pm »
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Just because a weapon is long doesn't mean it's unbalanced and thus hard to control.

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2012, 05:35:49 pm »
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Just because a weapon is long doesn't mean it's unbalanced and thus hard to control.
That's why I added the quotes. But certainly unwieldiness is proportional to length in the case of weapons.
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Offline Turboflex

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2012, 06:19:55 pm »
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The only exceptions would be a few weapons designed to overhead like hafted blades and katana.

Offline bruce

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2012, 07:30:29 pm »
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Yeh. But a Katana isn't a long weapon compared to say, a greatsword (or, in fact, almost any 2h sword); nor is hafted blade a long polearm (or that good), as far as polearms go.
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Offline Tzar

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 07:50:04 pm by Tzar »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2012, 08:05:30 pm »
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No video shows man turning 360 degrees in under a second while jumping a meter and a half in the air, while stabbing a target half a meter away with a nearly 3.5m long pike   :lol:
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chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character

Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2012, 09:21:03 pm »
+2
Being able to block in native duel is absolutely vital. If you miss a single block, you're often dead (sometimes two depending on how marginal the hits are). Blocking is also harder, so the skill ceiling is higher. A player can footwork all day, but if he can't block and he faces off against an opponent who can, then he's going to lose damn near every single fight.

 It's a shame that shields don't require some sort of manual blocking. It would greatly increase the skill required to usefully contribute in native battle.

I disagree,  The only reason I ALWAYS use shield, is because the blocking system with a weapon in M&B is horse*hit, and unrealistic to boot.


Shields take ALL kinds of manual manipulation - you have to watch your sides, watch your up block, avoid shield breakers etc. 

They ARE easier than manual blocking, but not because manual blocking requires more skill, (even though it does).

Its easier, because manual blocking in M&B is is over simplified in the engine, and thus requires more attention by the user to overcome its clunkiness,  but if manual block was more like shield blocks (but with more failure points), it would be more realistic, and a better system - not the other way around, from how i see it... You shouldnt have to manipulate your mouse and movement and thus your view, as much just to block left or right etc. If you could 'button bind the directions, it would be an improvement.

What would be nice, is if the NEXT M&B WB, made weapons block more like shields (in other words, EXACT angles via mouse, rather than 4 directional choice then a button, with the new system I would imagine requiring a button to determine angle of block- or 2 block buttons/or a button that with each click switches horizontal to vertical back to horizontal again, actionable DURING the opponents swing animation , and the weapon on an axis like the shield is now.)

  Shield blocking SHOULD be easier as well - blocking with a shield, has ALWAYS been easier in rl, its why they used them. Yes, you might say in later medieval times, when 2handers came into their own, they learned to block with it, but it was a much more time invested skill than blocking w/ a shield, AND blocking with a one hander, even against another one hander, much less a larger weapon, is much harder in rl with anything other than a pair of balanced rapiers, than it is in this game.  Crush through would be much higher on weapon blockers, and blocking would be more of an attempt to redirect the opponents swing slightly to one side, as you side step to the other direction.

BUT, an axis based manual block (like shields) with a button to choose horizontal or verticle stance, would be a gigantic improvement to the current clunky 4 directional manual block with a required 'tell of foot movement' and annoying jarring view change caused by using the mouse to choose the block direction.

Shields as they are now, are much better mechanically than manual blocking is, in this game. The only thing to really complain about is the 'force-field' and the clunky engine that limits manual blocking mechanics.

/start flaming



« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 10:23:26 pm by Vingnir the Wanderer »

Offline Vodner

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2012, 09:38:26 pm »
+2
Quote
I disagree,  The only reason I ALWAYS use shield, is because the blocking system with a weapon in M&B is horse*hit, and unrealistic to boot.
Realistic or not, the blocking system in Warband is quite mechanically sound (if maybe too simple). Blocks go exactly where you put them, and will always work if you do everything right - there's no random fuzz. Without manual blocking player skill would be far less important than it currently is. Warband is also the only game that's actually done a good job making blocking feel fairly natural.

Shield vs shield combat right now is boring. Good players know to listen for the 'thwock' blocking sound, so a fight with two or more competent shield users can drag out for a really long time*. Reducing shield health, making shields take absolutely no damage on a successful block (so you could potentially keep your shield alive forever), and increasing shield speed (to compensate for having to re-block feints) would make things a lot more interesting.

The more ways there are for players of every weapon class to shine (in terms of player skill), the more satisfying the game becomes.

*There have been several occasions in the past where I have had to break Matey's shield to get him to die. With a scimitar. This takes minutes.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 09:47:00 pm by Vodner »

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2012, 09:43:12 pm »
+2
Four-directional manual blocking is about 50% of the game experience :wink:

Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Turning speed nerf effects 1h more than 2h/pole.
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2012, 09:50:14 pm »
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Four-directional manual blocking is about 50% of the game experience :wink:

Not for me  :lol:

I dont like how my field of view gets twitched all over the place while trying to block, and my manual blocks dont always go where I want them because shield is block first direction after, and manual is direction first block after, and it screws up my rhythm, while the jarring mouse twitch to select block direction throws off my 'field awareness'.

So i take a shield every time, and absolutely love it.

I know I'm kinda alone here on this, because most people in this game use weapon blocking primarily.  I prefer not to, I dont like its mechanic in this game. Too jarring to my field view, not realistic, (I'm a Simulator fan) and because its opposite - (shield is block first direction after, and manual is direction first block after) it feels unintuative, and somewhat arcade-like.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 09:55:31 pm by Vingnir the Wanderer »