Rebalancing the Great Maul's stats

[JennaHaze]

10 kg is not so heavy...

[Tyr_]

I think mauler are fine as they are atm, you just have to know HOW to fight them. As soon as you do a stab or an overhead against a mauler youre fucked.
The trick is just to to sideswings and hiltslashes. Whenever the mauler is going for an overhead after he blocked a sideswing, spam him. He will be too slow with his attack, the only chance for a mauler to bring in overheads is after he blocked an overhead or stab. Fighting against maulers all you've to do is blocking his sideswings and spamming whenever he does an overhead, but NEVER attack him with an overhead or a stab.

[Bulzur]

Great Maul is totally fine.

On the other hand... the mallet is a realy good weapon. Especially considering it's price.

[Akynos]

Unfortunately, it seems people did not read my topic properly and believed I was raging against mauls.

No, he didn't, since anyone half-competent and who knows which end to stick them with knows that you go for the second swing always vs. mauler unless you see him doing side swing. Dont confuse your ignorance regarding game mechanics with actual flaws within it.

Btw. 24/15 is STR build, not "basic" 2h.

Tot,like many other people, you seem to have skipped my point. I am not here to debate on 'how to beat a mauler'. I am saying that the capacity for a mauler to crush-spam anyone who isn't agi-based is wrong. Perhaps it is my 'inability' in the game, but then again I am not a beginner and other good players have had the same issue.

24/15, yeah, thats more a STR build, I agree.

Remember, I am not saying maulers are unbeatable and should be nerfed, not at ALL, I am saying the way the Mauls work should be changed slightly. Please read the topic carefully.

First of all, it is not "10kg weapon", but 8.5kg AFTER you've loomed it 3rd time.

Of course.10 kg is simply representative. The maul is heavy, that's what I mean.

Second of all, you have no problem disregarding the fact that, in real life, NOONE could survive a SINGLE overhead hit with that weapon, no matter what armor they wore.

This is game balance discussion, not realism disscussion.Don't get confused on what is debated here.

And finally, have fun getting your behind kissed by all the non maulers replying.

Spread your hate elsewhere. Have a wank, it helps.

I think mauler are fine as they are atm, you just have to know HOW to fight them. As soon as you do a stab or an overhead against a mauler youre fucked.
The trick is just to to sideswings and hiltslashes. Whenever the mauler is going for an overhead after he blocked a sideswing, spam him. He will be too slow with his attack, the only chance for a mauler to bring in overheads is after he blocked an overhead or stab. Fighting against maulers all you've to do is blocking his sideswings and spamming whenever he does an overhead, but NEVER attack him with an overhead or a stab.

Thank you for the explanation Tyr, but I know the tactics to beat a mauler but like I told Tot, I do not rage against mauls and ask them to be nerfed. ITS NOT A NERF. I played mauler and fought maulers. I won and lost against them. I just think it is unfair for people who do not have much athletics to be powerless against crushthrough spam. Once hit, you are DEAD, and I think this is unfair. To balance for the stun, I think mauls should be given another advantage, such as increased speed rating. It's a 'trade' sort of

Thank you for your answers .

[Leshma]

I used to think mauls are fine. I thought they were very situational and not all that effective overall in battle, back then almost no one used a maul in battle. Now the number of plate maulers is growing, and it becomes clear to me that mauls are just easy mode. I see very average players get very good scores, simply because they use mauls and plate. Once they get one hit in you are screwed.

Great Maul and Long Spear are noob friendly weapons. Just watch closely some newer people and their strugle in cRPG. First they pick shielder, get owned. Then they try that simpy OP greatsword from Denmark. Kill some noobs, get owned by everybody else. Then they either go Maul or Long Spear way (with as much STR as they can have).

Many of noobs used to go either archery or cavalry but those were nerfed so aren't appealing anymore.

Current trends in cRPG EU:

1) Pikes
2) Throwing
3) Mauls
4) Cav

[Akynos]

Game balance does not equal selective argumentation.

You introduced realism aspect by implying that it is "not possible" for someone to "swing so frequent" with a "weapon weighting 10 kilograms"

Many things in cRPG aren't possible, such as blocking swords with a 0 slot hammer, but it's a much deeper issue than just rebalancing one weapon.

I agree, we should use real life arguments.However, it must stick to the argumentation. You tell me that I do not consider that mauls one-shot in real life? fine, what do you suggest? 60b? I didnt consider as well that your maul could slip because of your sweaty mittens and fall on your foot, which cripples you for the battle and would be considered a suicide IG. Yeah.Let's be careful with the RL elements we put it, shall we?

[Tot.]

Tot,like many other people, you seem to have skipped my point. I am not here to debate on 'how to beat a mauler'. I am saying that the capacity for a mauler to crush-spam anyone who isn't agi-based is wrong.

I just explained, as many others, that mauler simply cannot "crush-spam" anyone who isnt afk, hence your whole argument is wrong. ATH is irrelevant as long as you remember not to succumb into "attack then block" scheme versus maul.

just think it is unfair for people who do not have much athletics to be powerless against crushthrough spam. Once hit, you are DEAD, and I think this is unfair.

And by the way, you are fully capable of squeezing in a swing after being hit with an maul overhead if using anything even remotely fast, all one-handed weapons included and most of the 2h. Competent mauler fighting competent person will never go for a second overhead after hitting with first one because he will get spammed.

The only people who are truly screwed when meeting great maul are pikers. But honestly, they deserve it, those pokey asshats, don't they? Don't they?

PS.

I think mauler are fine as they are atm, you just have to know HOW to fight them. As soon as you do a stab or an overhead against a mauler youre fucked.

The stab part is obviously true, but are you sure about the overhead? I don't think there's enough stun from it to give time for mauls main attack in before the swing follow-up connects.

[BlindGuy]

Read the op, and most of thread, and only logical response is:


IF YOU USE FANTASY WEAPON SUCH AS DANISH OR ANY GREATSWORD AND COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE INGAME YOUR A MASSIVE NAB.

[Teeth]

I think mauler are fine as they are atm, you just have to know HOW to fight them. As soon as you do a stab or an overhead against a mauler youre fucked.
The trick is just to to sideswings and hiltslashes. Whenever the mauler is going for an overhead after he blocked a sideswing, spam him. He will be too slow with his attack, the only chance for a mauler to bring in overheads is after he blocked an overhead or stab. Fighting against maulers all you've to do is blocking his sideswings and spamming whenever he does an overhead, but NEVER attack him with an overhead or a stab.

What about the part where you get stunned horribly with a held sideswing?

Oh and hiltslashes are a brilliant idea, lets facehug the guy with the 68 length weapon. Then there is the fact that you can't always sideswingspam a great mauler if he has decent footwork.

[Akynos]

Again, you misunderstood me. I pointed out that YOU used real life arguments only to tell me that "This is game balance discussion, not realism disscussion.Don't get confused on what is debated here."

As I told you, real life arguments can be used, but it has to be related to the topic.. I'm talking about crushthrough spam, which involves real life facts such as RL speed for a 10 8.517 kg weapon. The amount of damage that is done is unrelated to the fact that you can crushspam.

Anyway, I don't hold a grudge against you, we all get confused in such discussions, and I appreciate your comments like anyone else's. Perhaps I misunderstood you from the beginning, then I am sorry

I just explained, as many others, that mauler simply cannot "crush-spam" anyone who isnt afk, hence your whole argument is wrong. ATH is irrelevant as long as you remember not to succumb into "attack then block" scheme versus maul.

Again, Tot, you seem to have forgotten that I do not discuss about how to fight a mauler and avoid his spam. That is not what I am talking about. I am talking when you are, actively, hit by a maul, not before.

And by the way, you are fully capable of squeezing in a swing after being hit with an maul overhead if using anything even remotely fast, all one-handed weapons included and most of the 2h. Competent mauler fighting competent person will never go for a second overhead after hitting with first one because he will get spammed.

Remotely fast.Give me one of your scimitars and I'll agree. Now try that same thing with a weapon with 90 speed rating, and see if you can squeeze a hit. As I have said in the OP, not everyone is affected by crushspam. As I said before, agi builds or 1h can attack after a CT.I'm talking about those who physically cannot, not because of a lack of skill, but because the game mechanics forbid it.

Anyway, thank you for your response Tot

[Tot.]

That is not what I am talking about. I am talking when you are, actively, hit by a maul, not before.

Then we should use same argument "it's wrong you can't defend yourself once you're hit" to all polearm class weapons and their stagger. Now that is something I can agree with that is wrong since it actually does make you lose control over your character and no matter what you do you will get hit again. And polearms are far more common than mauls. 

[San]

It's a dedicated support weapon with obvious strengths and weaknesses. For 1hs, maulers can't overhead twice period, as long as you left swing (it out speeds right swing though). Block stun and frame perfect overhead after block that is difficult/can't be spammed can be a pain, but only good players do that.

I feel that 3 slots nerf a while back was appropriate enough. They have few other options for weapons, get shot up by ranged, and harassed by cavalry.


For "stun", they can make it so the overhead can collide on the ground or something easily, like the very long 1hs. But the speed will need to be substantially increased in a way. Still can't think of that as any better than what we have now though..

[Akynos]

Then we should use same argument "it's wrong you can't defend yourself once you're hit" to all polearm class weapons and their stagger. Now that is something I can agree with that is wrong since it actually does make you lose control over your character and no matter what you do you will get hit again. And polearms are far more common than mauls. 

Despite being a polearmer these times, I agree that polestun is..well..to keep it simple...bullshit.It doesnt stop me from using it tho
But I'd like to stay on the crushthrough case, plenty of topics to diverge onto polestun But put yourself at my place, Tot, you're a Str-char,
and a if a mauler manages to hit you, you can't reply back, like polestun, yeah. If I'm 1h, no prob, but with this build, I'm toast, and I think that's BS as well. Would you agree with me that this feature unbalances the game?

It's a dedicated support weapon with obvious strengths and weaknesses. For 1hs, maulers can't overhead twice period, as long as you left swing (it out speeds right swing though). Block stun and frame perfect overhead after block that is difficult/can't be spammed can be a pain, but only good players do that.

I feel that 3 slots nerf a while back was appropriate enough. They have few other options for weapons, get shot up by ranged, and harassed by cavalry.


For "stun", they can make it so the overhead can collide on the ground or something easily, like the very long 1hs. But the speed will need to be substantially increased in a way. Still can't think of that as any better than what we have now though..

I believe a stun effect will make it better, because maulers will have to time their attacks well and use more grey cells, but this will not come as a disadvantage. Other players who will not get sensely spammed will not be pissed off and will see maulers as a class that requires skill. Everybody would be better off

[Leshma]

The stab part is obviously true, but are you sure about the overhead? I don't think there's enough stun from it to give time for mauls main attack in before the swing follow-up connects.

It's about stun, it's about chamber. If you do overhead they can chamber it and you're dead.

[Tot.]

But put yourself at my place (...) you're a Str-char and a if a mauler manages to hit you (...) with this build, I'm toast, and I think that's BS as well. Would you agree with me that this feature unbalances the game?

Then also we would certainly need to agree on that archers, crossbows and other thrower cowards unbalance the game because shieldless two-handers and polearms have no means to defend themselves against it. What you're saying is basically nerf change my counter-class because it counters me.

it's about chamber. If you do overhead they can chamber it and you're dead.

It's so risky that I don't think anyone sane would go for it on purpose. Fair enough though.