Rebalancing the Great Maul's stats

[Akynos]

Hello c-rpg community,
Firstly, I'd like to point out that this is not a rage topic. In fact, I haven't fought a mauler in ages. But I think it needs to change based on a balancing concept.
I believe many of you already have had a good experience of a mauler's gameplay.However I'll give a typical situation when a two-hander faces a mauler, and so explain why I believe the Great Maul's stats need to be modified.

You are a 24/15 two hander with a danish. Typical build and equipment.You wander through the battlefield, slicing your daily rabble.Suddenly, a wild mauler appears. Mighty weapon, loomed heavy armor, STR build. Supposedly slow guy. He comes towards you. Aware of the dangerous tincan, you start to play on the reach,and you land two hits. But then, the mauler comes close to you.Your attack hits, he naturally blocks, and swings overhead. BAM ! CT'ed. Hurts. Ok, he got you, but you prepare to attack him, now that he swung his heavy weapon at you, he is bound to be vulnerable now.
But..what? I'm stunned? Hey, he's swinging again? but how? his weapon weighs 10 kilograms! He can't possibly...OH SH...
BAM!
BAM!
''-Kiss the dirt, scumbag.''

So you guessed it, our poor fella never had a chance because the mauler could spam him on overheads once he hit him once.
This kind of situation usually happens with STR-orientated builds, agi's or 1h do not have a problem ( even though it may happen to them as well)
I believe it is a gameplay mistake that maulers can spam. Such a weapon is really heavy, and with such a pressure applied from the overhead, combining the gravity and the arm's strength, it must be extreeeeeemely slow to chamber again.

Of course, some of you will say that it is very possible to defeat a mauler by moving around,etc. But then again, you need a certain amount of agility to do this. I have STR-orientated characters,and whenever I face a decent mauler, the guy just blocks my hits and he just needs to touch me once and bam, I'm toast.

However, I believe the speed rating of the weapon needs to be changed into a higher value. Why? Because the weapon's swings feel too slow for the force that is applied to them.
I have a 15 kg weight set at home.If I try swinging it,I'm going to have to apply a lot of pressure for it to make a swing. But when it does, it is relatively fast.
The mauls In-Game work the opposite way: It takes little time to chamber and swing it, but the swings are very slow. You can actually make a 360 between the release and the hit.
I don't want to base my opinion on me swinging a weight set, but that is just to illustrate the idea.

So what do I suggest?

-Add a short stun for the mauler after a swing. This represents the small amount of time needed to stop the weapon and chamber it back into position, because of the enormous force that is needed to first slow down the weapon and then swing it back the other way to re-chamber. Of course, the person that got mauled should not be able to swing back while the mauler is stunned, that would be unfair.

-General speed rating of the maul would be substancially increased. Swings would be much faster.

-Maybe a slight damage buff to compensate for the impossibility of spamming.

So what would the result give? A mauler would not mindlessly spam. He would have to time his move right. He would not get spammed to death himself while he swings, because his swings would be faster. Everybody would be happy, because no one would rage due to intense spam: It will take a bit more intelligence and patience for a mauler to defeat an ennemy, yet it will be slightly simpler. If the enemy makes a mistake, it will not be the end for him : Once hit, he can strike back or move out of the maulers range, and then find a way to beat him with the reach, footwork, kicks or chambers.
I believe that this will give opportunities for maulers to be an attractive class that will be well seen by the community, instead of being seen as  the 'noob abuse', 'spam machine' of today.

Thank you for your consideration ! Please tell me what you think of my idea.

[Molly]

First off, your suggestion is very well written and it is obvious you've put some effort into it. Unfortunately that's something rare in here ;)

This doesn't change that I have to disagree. Mauler are one of the few classes which seem to be actually balanced in crpg. I feel the urge to rant about lolstabbing now but I try not to give in.
Maulers are slow, obvious in their appearance and their intent. It's actually pretty easy to avoid them if your build doesn't fit the requirements to kill him head on or just out-maneuver him. On the other hand is timing already key in playing a Maul.

Dedicated Mauler aren't spamming and I don't think that those people are not respected. 24/15 builds who normally use a 2h and take a maul just for the "lulz" on the other hand add to the bad reputation of the maul.

Well, I lack the arguments but my gut tells me that Maulers are fine like they are... 

[Kalp]

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[Cup1d]

I think that «crushthrough» is already a gift for any weapon. Also 43 blunt damage is already very good. Even Knockdown is 40% chance to win with one succesful hit.
One question though - do you really think that idea to combine this all in one weapon is good for balance?

P.S. - I don't mind about simple maul with crushtrough. 34 blunt damage is good for weapon that's can't be blocked, if you know how to abuse builds mechanics.

The mauls In-Game work the opposite way: It takes little time to chamber and swing it, but the swings are very slow. You can actually make a 360 between the release and the hit.

This is another feature to abuse.

[Paul]

Toughen up, Esmeralda. Especially Danish users with their great reach have good chances to beat a mauler.

[Tzar]

I still cant believe people come on these forums to whine about this trash weapon this late in the cRPG period 

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[Akynos]

Thank you already for your considerate answers.

@Benkei : Well, I disagree with you as you see, but hey, I've given my arguments, if you still feel its balanced,we'll just have to settle on our different opinions ^^ but do you at least see what I mean with 'maul spam'?

@Cup1d: If I understand you well, you believe no change should be made?

[Vexus]

Man do you know how slow is the block animation of the great maul and mallet? Use that in your advantage.

Ps. If you are having problems fighting a mauler why not just run away or wait for some more allies?

I mean you can't have easy fights every time, choose your opponents wisely and you'll do fine.

[Cup1d]

Akynos

I think that something must be nerfed. Damage output, Crushthrough chance, Knockdown or requirements. Great maul is one of fantasy weapons in cRPG - make fantasy requirements for this weapon - 24 or 27 str. This way it'll be impossible to have great maul and 7-8 athletics at once.

Tzar

21\21 build with great maul is reasonable fast. so your backpedalling advise is meh.


P.S.
Another way - make Crushthrough chance same as Knockdown chance. Maximum 30-40% chance is good enough for IWIN tactics.

[Leshma]

I don't care anymore about great maul. Still think it's broken weapon but don't care about it and don't give a damn will they change it or not.

However, I think that every dedicated mauler is a nab.

[Teeth]

I used to think mauls are fine. I thought they were very situational and not all that effective overall in battle, back then almost no one used a maul in battle. Now the number of plate maulers is growing, and it becomes clear to me that mauls are just easy mode. I see very average players get very good scores, simply because they use mauls and plate. Once they get one hit in you are screwed.

I myself don't even really know how to properly fight maulers with some classes, they move forwards faster than I move backwards even when in plate. Sure you can outrange em with one attack, maybe two, but then they are in range. Spamming doesn't really work with the aforementioned Danish, sometimes you can attack twice before the overhead lands, but a lot of the times you just dont make it. Then there is the risk of glancing on the plate, the risk of getting stunned, the fact that you need 5 hits+ to kill him and if he hits you once you are dead.

This is only coming from my experience fighting the maulers on EU_1, most of them aren't even all that good. If a really good player goes maul and plate there is very little to counter him.

I think the great maul should be nerfed, maybe not in this way, but it is really a very easy weapon to fight with.

[zagibu]

I think the OP's suggestion is very good. I'm not sure if it's possible, though. Maybe a damage nerf could also work.

[Akynos]

I used to think mauls are fine. I thought they were very situational and not all that effective overall in battle, back then almost no one used a maul in battle. Now the number of plate maulers is growing, and it becomes clear to me that mauls are just easy mode. I see very average players get very good scores, simply because they use mauls and plate. Once they get one hit in you are screwed.

I myself don't even really know how to properly fight maulers with some classes, they move forwards faster than I move backwards even when in plate. Sure you can outrange em with one attack, maybe two, but then they are in range. Spamming doesn't really work with the aforementioned Danish, sometimes you can attack twice before the overhead lands, but a lot of the times you just dont make it. Then there is the risk of glancing on the plate, the risk of getting stunned, the fact that you need 5 hits+ to kill him and if he hits you once you are dead.

This is only coming from my experience fighting the maulers on EU_1, most of them aren't even all that good. If a really good player goes maul and plate there is very little to counter him.

I think the great maul should be nerfed, maybe not in this way, but it is really a very easy weapon to fight with.

Teeth has gone through the same experiences than I have. All the problems I've seen with maul are mentioned in his post.

Akynos

I think that something must be nerfed. Damage output, Crushthrough chance, Knockdown or requirements. Great maul is one of fantasy weapons in cRPG - make fantasy requirements for this weapon - 24 or 27 str. This way it'll be impossible to have great maul and 7-8 athletics at once.

P.S.
Another way - make Crushthrough chance same as Knockdown chance. Maximum 30-40% chance is good enough for IWIN tactics.

I don't believe this is the right way to deal with the problem. I think having a CT percent chance like knockdown is vicious for maulers. Remember, I am not against maulers, for I have been one myself. I want the best output for everyone, and adding random stats or just decreasing damage output is not a good idea in my opinion. As for high reqs, I was a full plated mauler full STR, and trust me, only agi builds could avoid my spam. Like Teeth said, once I was in range, they were useless. All they could hope for was for ME to make a mistake, not for them to play well. I stand firm on my suggestion.

Man do you know how slow is the block animation of the great maul and mallet? Use that in your advantage.

Ps. If you are having problems fighting a mauler why not just run away or wait for some more allies?

I mean you can't have easy fights every time, choose your opponents wisely and you'll do fine.

Blocks are not influenced by WPF. A mauler can block any attack,as long as he is not affected by the 'unbalanced' effect.

I am talking about strict 1vs 1 situations. Of course if you have allies you have a better chance, mauler or not. But yeah, in battle
the best choice would be to teamgank.

Anyway, thank you for your answers !

[Dezilagel]

Non-idiot maulers stun you with a held sideswing and then overhead = basically impossible to stop except via kicking.

Mauls aren't horribly, horribly broken but they do make shitty players a threat.

I still vouch for making CT only apply to shields and buffing mauls as general combat weps instead.

[Tot.]

Mighty weapon, loomed heavy armor, STR build. Supposedly slow guy. He comes towards you. Aware of the dangerous tincan, you start to play on the reach,and you land two hits. But then, the mauler comes close to you.Your attack hits, he naturally blocks, and swings overhead. BAM ! CT'ed. Hurts. Ok, he got you

No, he didn't, since anyone half-competent and who knows which end to stick them with knows that you go for the second swing always vs. mauler unless you see him doing side swing. Dont confuse your ignorance regarding game mechanics with actual flaws within it.

Btw. 24/15 is STR build, not "basic" 2h.