Please return ladder in cRPG

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Adding them to battle is horrible as fuck, adding them to siege is excellent as fuck!

[Beauchamp]

So it's perfectly okay for a game to have one group of players being basically invulnerable and able to attack everyone, while the other group can't do nothing except of hiding and waiting and hoping to not get killed? And this is good gameplay? With equal distribution of fun?

ladders give you some more fun and variety in options on what to do on a map, at the same time they cause a few problems (some maps being unbalanced for example, some other maps are completely unsuitable for ladders...). for me the 1st part prevails, for you the 2nd one. the 2nd one is imo however caused mostly by brainless people that somehow like to be shot and are attracted to places with the most dense archery fire (if there are many people on a roof, simply don't fight there). i still believe that the 2nd part could be negated even a bit more by adjusting when the flags appear (always 2 mins before the map end no matter the kills - so not all the players manage to commit a suicide by climbing these roofs without a shield).

btw feel free to twist  what i said in whatever way you want...

[Herkkutatti]

don't blame ladders about the roof camping, blame archers.
I Have even better suggestion!!! Return ladders and remove archery! PROBLEM SOLVED! NO ROOFCAMPING!

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

That Zlisch guy sure is awesome, I'll give him all my looms, I'll also become Kafeins bitch, and I'll agree that Blacckbow isn't a real pimp.

btw feel free to twist  what i said in whatever way you want... this is 100% what I said.

Why thank you, I'll take those looms now.

[TurmoilTom]

1) Bring back ladders to siege only.

2) Bring back firebombs with the ability to 1-2 shot ladders so even if they're unreachable by defenders they can still be destroyed.

Bam, cRPG siege fun increased 300%.

Could also design new siege maps with deployable ladders in mind...

[Kafein]

ladders give you some more fun and variety in options on what to do on a map, at the same time they cause a few problems (some maps being unbalanced for example, some other maps are completely unsuitable for ladders...). for me the 1st part prevails, for you the 2nd one. the 2nd one is imo however caused mostly by brainless people that somehow like to be shot and are attracted to places with the most dense archery fire (if there are many people on a roof, simply don't fight there). i still believe that the 2nd part could be negated even a bit more by adjusting when the flags appear (always 2 mins before the map end no matter the kills - so not all the players manage to commit a suicide by climbing these roofs without a shield).

btw feel free to twist  what i said in whatever way you want...

A roof usually provides the ranged troops on it a firing line on virtually any enemy acting in a useful way. On most maps, hiding from roofcampers or "don't fight there" = being forced to do nothing. If this is really your solution to roofcamping, battle mode would be better with MotF flags spawning as the round begins.

[Beauchamp]

the biggest problem is level design. there are many maps that suck overall and some of them would suck probably even more with ladders. but its not the ladders, its the maps. with good maps battles with ladders can be better fun.

the way i see it the correct level design should offer you various options for reaching some places at a trade of for something else - for example i'm not against some tall tower in the middle of a map from where you will see everybody - if the tower will be narrow without a cover (so if more archers stack there, they will be safe against cavalry but very vulnerable to other ranged as they couldn't maneuver there). there can be "better" roofs at your spawn, but then you won't probably be able to shoot to the places where the action is (in the middle) etc.

problems are roofs that offer perfect cover for archers from both cavalry and ranged (when you're able to hide behind the roof) that are on sweet spots.

also with slot system, not everybody can really afford a ladder. also ranged is not what it used to be, sniping on a distance is no longer an option, you can't hit a shit even with 170 wpf above 30m.

edit:
i'd also bring firebombs back to c-rpg
1 slost, lighter, otherwise same as before.
throw it to the roof, watch the unaware archers BURN
sounds just awesome to me... 
kicking the smoking firebomb would douse it.

[Rainbow]

1) Bring back ladders to siege only.

2) Bring back firebombs with the ability to 1-2 shot ladders so even if they're unreachable by defenders they can still be destroyed.

Bam, cRPG siege fun increased 300%.

Could also design new siege maps with deployable ladders in mind...

I like the firebomb idea.  Has to be a 1 shot though that requires no throwing and you can keep 3-4 of them in one stack.  That would be super duper fun.

[Joker86]

I like the firebomb idea.  Has to be a 1 shot though that requires no throwing and you can keep 3-4 of them in one stack.  That would be super duper fun.

Then what would prevent you of making a thrower build, equipping 4 stacks of fire bombs and eleminating half of the enemy team as soon as their blob approaches you?

[Kafein]

the biggest problem is level design. there are many maps that suck overall and some of them would suck probably even more with ladders. but its not the ladders, its the maps. with good maps battles with ladders can be better fun.

the way i see it the correct level design should offer you various options for reaching some places at a trade of for something else - for example i'm not against some tall tower in the middle of a map from where you will see everybody - if the tower will be narrow without a cover (so if more archers stack there, they will be safe against cavalry but very vulnerable to other ranged as they couldn't maneuver there). there can be "better" roofs at your spawn, but then you won't probably be able to shoot to the places where the action is (in the middle) etc.

problems are roofs that offer perfect cover for archers from both cavalry and ranged (when you're able to hide behind the roof) that are on sweet spots.

also with slot system, not everybody can really afford a ladder. also ranged is not what it used to be, sniping on a distance is no longer an option, you can't hit a shit even with 170 wpf above 30m.

edit:
i'd also bring firebombs back to c-rpg
1 slost, lighter, otherwise same as before.
throw it to the roof, watch the unaware archers BURN
sounds just awesome to me... 
kicking the smoking firebomb would douse it.

I think the only way to design a map correctly taking ladders into account is to actually have some roofs specifically designed for ladders and some others not. You can't take a map then magically make it suitable for ladders. The only way ladders can work is if the map maker already plans all the possible ladders. Which pretty much means that the map could have fixed ladders on those points.


Not having to worry about placeable ladders also allows for a greater creativity from the map makers.

[Andy]

No.  Siege is far less about sitting on the flag as defense since the flow of battle is more predictable.  On most maps, defenders know roughly where they need to be in relation to the main body of the enemy.  With ladders, defending players need to be on the lookout all the time for sneaky players trying to steal the flag or open gates without a fight.  Ladders also makes maps far harder to balance, since walls often become no obstacle to attackers (sometimes walls even become a pathway for enemy ladders straight to the flag!).

+1 to ladders
"defending players need to be on the lookout all the time for sneaky players "
Ummmm Yes they do.
Defending players NEED to be on the lookout all the time for sneaky players. Isn't this the whole POINT of seige?
YES FOR LADDERS!

[Rainbow]

Then what would prevent you of making a thrower build, equipping 4 stacks of fire bombs and eleminating half of the enemy team as soon as their blob approaches you?

Oh.  I was thinking that the bomb would only damage siege ladders.  I didn't know that this used to damage players as well.

[TurmoilTom]

Oh.  I was thinking that the bomb would only damage siege ladders.  I didn't know that this used to damage players as well.

They used to damage players, but that's not what I was suggesting. I don't know what Joker's thinking.

[Shatter]

Do not bring back the terror that is ladders in battle. You can add them anywhere else, but leave battle alone.

[karasu]

My ticket suggestion in the bug tracker regarding ladders from months ago is still up, back then a limit of deployed ladders per team would have been a good fix in Siege Mode at least.

http://bugtracker.c-rpg.net/view.php?id=77


Thanks to the constant bitching of Battle Mode players about rooftop parties this measure ended up being cast aside, and the easy way out of totally disabling them came into effect.

I'd love to see them back in Siege Mode at least, since most of the Scenes were made taking into account the usage of ladders into walls, not the 2 front ladder 1 backdoor meat grinder system that siege as now.

Cheers.