Spawn Tents in NA Siege

[Arjay]

No, I really didn't explain what I thought was fair and unfair because it was 5 A.M. when I typed the message and I just wanted to get a post up before I went to sleep.  I do agree that the persisting spawn is totally unfair. I just wanted to say that we really weren't trying to be unfair we just thought we were using good teamwork so that is why we were so defensive on the server when you called us out.

[Elindor]

Im all for progressing spawn points (I think siege would be more interesting as a capture point game like BF or something - take the gatehouse and then take the courtyard, and then the flag, or something)

...However, the simple fact remains that the current spawn tents PERSIST from round to round, and DO NOT RESET like every other aspect of the siege mode.  So, if this is fixed, then its fine - but until then it is NOT good for gameplay and probably would fall under abuse of mechanics.

An equivalent abuse would be if there was a way to make it so that if you destroyed the gate the first round, the second round would start with the gate already destroyed......

[OpenPalm]

I think people have started to use this tactic and it's been less than a week.  As with all games involving strategy, when a powerful new strategic element is introduced, it can often seem over-powered.  I think we should give it time to see if defenders can learn to counter it. 

I also think it is very important that if you get team-switched your spawn resets as well.  Enemies should not be spawning at a team's forward spawn.

[Zapier]

Team-switched or not, no one should be spawning at these locations at the start of a round. Let's say attackers got a tent inside a hidden nook that's near a gate they can open quickly, sure if they get team-switched they shouldn't spawn there anymore, but neither should the attackers still on offense at the start of a round. Everyone should spawn at the regular starting spawn points, not get an advantage that persists through rounds.

This isn't about a strategy that's over-powered or new, it's about a strategy that creates an obvious abusive situation when things go right. Just because someone finds something that can be abused, doesn't mean they should be using it. Like when pikes and long spears weren't to be used on horseback, or the siege construction piles when they were indestructible. It wasn't a matter of being an over-powered strategy, but because they weren't working as intended.

Now, if the powers that be wish to rule that using spawn tents in their current state, that can lead to people spawning at the start of a round that bypasses defenses is fine and dandy, then I propose making doors and gates remain in their same conditions at the start of a new round. I mean, it would be just good strategy to go around breaking all the doors in the first round when they're weak so that you can have an easy path on the following rounds... and if the defenders can't counter that, well too bad, yes?

[Elindor]

we need to separate the discussion into 2 basic groups:

1 - strategic value

2 - current glitched/bugged state of the mechanic

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ok, now that that is done....

1 - yes, i agree, as i stated i LOVE the idea of progressing spawn points in siege!  i think we should incorporate that into the very code of the mode itself!  take the gatehouse, spawn there, take the courtyard, spawn there, etc....  things would have to be balanced by the devs overall to make this work but it would be a overall BONUS to siege mode imho.

2 -  it is currently a glitched system and that is why people are opposed to its use in siege "IN ITS CURRENT FORM".  its not complicated...just think about it -  IT DOES NOT RESET AT THE END OF A ROUND.  EVERYTHING ELSE DOES - doors, the flag, weapons on the ground, siege ladders, ladders, EVERYTHING.  This part of the convo is pretty plain and simple imho. 

[MR_FISTA]

FRANK FOR ADMIN

[Vieuxcrotter]

Fix that stupid shit, its already too easy for offensive team to capture flag without that. Plus the spawn point carry over the rounds so on top of making it unbalanced for the defensive team the mechanic of the tent is broken.

Siege was balanced without the tents and ladders.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

If the gear is going to be destroyed at the end of the round then it needs a serious re-balance of deployment costs.

But honestly just read through this argument and think about its ramifications for game play.

If all the spawns re-set but still stay in place the both the attacking and defending teams have to first get to the spawn and then set it as their spawn point.

Really the argument is, should this stuff be in the game? That is what it is down to. Should you be able to heal up, get more ammo, re-locate your spawn, knock down gates in 1-2 shots.

I think it should be in the game.

[Cyclopsided]

Due to the nature of them being broken as a game mechanic and not destroying at the end of the round...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they aren't allowed.

When tent usage is fixed, sure, allowed! But until then, no.
I think everyone else will agree with me.

This is under discussion now amongst the admins, we'll get back on a final consensus. Until then, Spawn tents in siege are not allowed.

Edited the post, updated.
Continue your debate as you will, but with the current state of things they will not be allowed.
If some rules can be agreed upon, this may change.

That means if you are still doing it: Stop.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Does that mean just no spawn points marathon?

[Cyclopsided]

No spawn tents until rules are agreed upon amongst all the admins.
If they're allowed at all, we'll see! I hope they can be fixed someday.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Yeah they just removed all of it from the game with the new patch. So I don't think you need to worry about it marathon. Also I don't mean the tent, the stopped all of it from working. When you build a weapons rack it just disappears.

If this isn't just some stuff up that puts an end to it for me. I've tried all the other classes with my 280 ping, in the end I had to coble a functional "engineer" out of the siege gear and throwing, its not a even a real fucking class but at least I could still play.

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Just tested other stuff on the duel server.

Weapons racks seem to be the only thing that doesn't work. I built a healing tent by dieing over and over again :/ slow, annoying process.

[POOPHAMMER]

the fun police on crpg really do ruin everything

The forward base could have just simply been scripted to have less HP and die after the end of the round, like maybe the same kind of HP as a healing tent so even someone throwing rocks can take it down

Weapon racks, idk what the point of that was, now being a defensive thrower on siege got a lot harder due to either only being able to throw when they get up the wall, or suicide to regain your ammo.

Thanks!

[Cyclopsided]

the fun police on crpg really do ruin everything

The forward base could have just simply been scripted to have less HP and die after the end of the round, like maybe the same kind of HP as a healing tent so even someone throwing rocks can take it down

Weapon racks, idk what the point of that was, now being a defensive thrower on siege got a lot harder due to either only being able to throw when they get up the wall, or suicide to regain your ammo.

Thanks!

Exactly, I want them to be working functional things in siege. The problem was that they were broken.
If they just released a patch disabling them, well, problem solved, thread should be closed.
I loved the idea of all these things working and being strategic options in siege, but coding needs to be done for that (and I'm not a coder)

[Zapier]

Hopefully they be able to fix it so it works more properly to stay in line with somehow resetting after rounds... then we can have them back.

Really the argument is, should this stuff be in the game? That is what it is down to.

That was never my argument, and I'm not sure many other people were arguing that way either. No one wants to see things removed, but only if they work properly. Obviously, the spawn tents in siege aren't working 100% as intended so it's better to avoid the potential headaches and have them disabled/disallowed till they no longer do that.

If anyone thinks the argument was simply about removing spawn tents from siege, then they missed the greater picture I think. I, for one, would just like them fixed if they are going to be allowed, and until then have them disallowed. I don't want to potentially lose modifiers because of a spawn tent creating scenarios that shouldn't be happening in the first place.

As for the weapon rack issues... well, that wasn't even an issue in my OP, but they're obviously showing the same symptoms the spawn tents are of what the admins don't want happening... i.e. not going away at the end of a round.