Author Topic: Spawn Tents in NA Siege  (Read 3817 times)

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Offline Zapier

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Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« on: May 03, 2012, 06:28:32 am »
-2
Since when is using spawn tents legal in siege? Or for that matter any game mode? I thought those were a purely Strategus thing... especially when it's obviously being used to be abusive for attackers. Take tonight for example with KUTT primarily being the vocal supporters of said tactic... so using the forward base, if it survived through the match, those using it to spawn now spawned at the start of the next round inside the walls, allowing them to quickly open gates within 5 seconds.

Being seemed to be happy with this since it allowed for fast and easy victories for attackers, and anyone upset with this had mostly KUTT telling them to 'take it to the forums then!' or 'admins use it' and the lovely 'only organized groups know how to do it' responses. Am I really one of the few who find this tactic abusive? If the forward base spawn reset at the end of the match, that'd be one thing but it obviously persists and it happened on multiple maps where people got these forward bases in locations that didn't get them destroyed easily... talk about making siege viable only for attackers... since what good would spawning outside with a forward spawn point do for any defenders?

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 06:49:13 am »
0
I'm not too sure about the ruling on thoses Tents, through I know Frank the Tank is suggesting some ways to fix the problem.

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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 08:15:41 am »
+12
The tents are legit. If the defenders are so inept that an engineer team can penetrate the castle and spend 90 seconds building the thing with out being stopped and then the defenders can't be arsed to go and destroy it who's fault is that?

The major issue with it is team swapping. People can go from attacker to defender and vis versa, its a real bastard.

---------------------------------------------

I personally don't like to use them at moment because the team swapping is INSANE because of the amount of different banners floating around. I often get team swapped every round.

Also this morning/(night time NA) in a display of raging stupid the server banned Reak_1 for "opening the doors" when in fact we had both been team swapped 2 rounds previous and I had been returned to attacker. ie I opened the doors and he tried to stop me. He did fail so maybe he was justly punished, but I have 8ATH he really didn't stand a chance.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 09:13:18 am by FRANK_THE_TANK »
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Offline Digglez

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 10:30:54 am »
+4
the tents are fine, the problem is them not auto-destructing at the end of the round. its totally unfair advantage for offense the next round

Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 10:51:56 am »
+1
Due to the nature of them being broken as a game mechanic and not destroying at the end of the round...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they aren't allowed.

When tent usage is fixed, sure, allowed! But until then, no.
I think everyone else will agree with me.

This is under discussion now amongst the admins, we'll get back on a final consensus. Until then, Spawn tents in siege are not allowed.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 11:43:48 pm by Marathon »
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Offline Arjay

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 11:08:45 am »
+1
I really fail to see how this is unfair, considering it was easily destroyed a couple maps when a few defenders took the time to attack it, the other half of the time the spawn wasn't even protected.  Also, note, that it took valuable time from us pushing the flag to build those items. Sure, we got an advantage the next couple of rounds, but what would be the point of making an effort to build all the equipment and potentially losing that round if it didn't benefit us in the end?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 11:10:52 am by Arjay »

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 11:10:18 am »
+2
I think having them be destroyed is excessive and would reduce them to being useless. A 2-4 man team still needs about half a round to get one deployed in a half way useful place, which would have very little impact on the round due to the amount of time it takes for each person to select it as spawn 1 person at a time. It would make it more less make the thing pointless.

The main problem as I see it is not being de-selected. If everyone was re-set every round then the defense would have the time to destroy it and we wouldn't have the problem of people being team swapped and being able to magic gates open like I did earlier today.

I would say for the time being they should only be outside the gates of a castle.

Otherwise we are heading towards ladder territory and have to start asking questions like why did those damned things get banned grrrrrr.
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Offline Arjay

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 11:13:11 am »
0
I agree about spawns only being used outside of walls, we only actually used a spawn once in the walls, the rest of the times were just used to get up to the gates quicker so we didn't have to walk up tedious hills or spawn in random spots far away from each other. Also, we didn't build the spawn until the second round so none of that team switch stuff happened.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 11:14:24 am by Arjay »

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 11:23:16 am »
0
I should come work with you guys next time your on, get some of the ST6 guys to come. We shall build a mighty fort.
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Offline Digglez

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 11:41:35 am »
+1
if you break doors down, do they not get reset at the end of the round? does the gatehouse stay open?

if you think the tents should last thru rounds your a fuc en moron.

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 11:50:39 am »
+1
Cheers Digglez, your a bright and reasonable person.

Also fuck has a k in it, and the word you were looking for is fucking, a fucking moron.
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Offline Zapier

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 12:06:10 pm »
+2
Well, Digglez does have a point though. Spawn deselect or not... the tent and anything done/created during a round should disappear or else gatehouses should stay open and doors should also stay destroyed... after all, attackers might spend half a round chopping down doors too... so unfair to make them do it again...

I just can't believe... well, okay I do believe, but I can't understand how there can actually be a number of people that don't see the abusive usage of them right now no matter how easy they are to destroy. If they can create something that shouldn't be happening (i.e. attackers spawning inside walls at the beginning of a map when they should be spawning outside) then common sense would say the only real choice is to make sure it never takes place. In this instance, having players refrain from using them. It's the only simple solution that avoids the abusive usage until something can be done to change it, if ever.

Offline Xeen

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 01:24:52 pm »
0
It definitely needs to, at the very least, deselect spawnpoints at the ends of rounds.  You also have a good point in your comparison between the investment of breaking down doors vs. putting up a spawn tent.  I think siege implements add more depth to siege and while I think spawn tents could use some work, I don't want them making them unusable. 

I'd like to clarify some things, though.  Not one time in the long duration that I was on last night did we actually have a tent inside castle walls.  The one time people are probably claiming it was, it was at the end of a long hallway that led to the flag, but came from the outside.  You could see it from outside the castle, if it were 5 feet further out of the hallway it would have been completely outside castle walls.  We never used a spawn location to open doors or gates in an abnormal fashion.  I told my clan-mates that I wasn't going to allow such things, at least until there is a ruling by someone with authority on the matter.

Also, the spawn tent got countered on multiple occasions.  We learned tonight that putting it anywhere near elevated positions is dangerous because if one guy gets on top of it, it's done.  One map a guy even made a glorious leap from the castle walls where we didn't think they'd be able to get and made it on top of the tent. 

I find it surprising that you don't think forward spawns would be advantageous to defenders.  There are a lot of maps that have just the most godawful spawn points for defenders, where you have to run halfway across the map to get anywhere useful.  We used one defensive tent tonight, we tried to use others but we kept derping it in one way or another.

Edit:Also, I told my guys not to mess with them on the first round to avoid messy teamswap situations.  Just so everyone knows, and this applies to any situation, if you're having any trouble with any of the guys in KUTT, just let me know!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 01:30:06 pm by Xeen »

Offline Zapier

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 02:06:19 pm »
-1
There were a couple maps where it was put inside the 'walls'. One map it didn't really matter and just led to one guy getting killed I think like 40 times, but the second map was the one with the double doors at the bottom of the really tall hill map... wish I could remember the map name. Anyways, a spawn tent got setup just inside the gates, and it survived a couple rounds since no one noticed it at first given how the gates are not typically defended as it is, and it was pushed up against a building. Attackers got to start a couple rounds with someone already inside the open the gate right away, as opposed to spending a minute or two chopping on the gate which is what gives defenders a chance to setup.

I can't say that KUTT was responsible, I was just saying a couple KUTT members, as well as one or two more, voiced their support over said tactic (and being told that organized groups know how to properly use them by said people just implies a clan or group of friends planning it) when some people complained. Instead of joining into that debate in game, I simply started this thread. No head-hunting or anything, just simple discussion as to why some sort of clear rule/guideline should be laid out as to it's usage in siege... especially when someone defended the use of a spawn camp inside closed gates by saying that admins do it, so it's okay. If that's true, then I think the admin is also out of line... but that's beside the point. I just don't see any reason for anyone to claim that spawn tents that persist through multiple rounds if ignored/not known is just clever strategy when it more or less defies the point of resetting doors and gates.

Being used outside of doors/walled areas I think is a somewhat acceptable compromise for those that wish to use them, because they are a good strategy... they do help for some tricky spawns or just keeping people one step closer to an objective. The after-the-round effects of surviving tents are just too abusive or annoying, depending on which side you're on when you spawn there, to have people simply shrug their shoulders and say, 'Well, too bad you lost as defenders within two minutes on a map that clearly takes longer because you didn't notice our hidden spawn tent that allowed us to open your defenses from the inside.'

Offline Turboflex

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Re: Spawn Tents in NA Siege
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 04:02:05 pm »
+1
People seriously think it should last through the map rounds? people starting with spawn 5 seconds from flag/key gate???