Equalize weapon master & agility builds

[Spanish]

I honestly found an amazing dueling build in the 21-21 hits good with quick footwork allowing me to get the jump on people. And since I WM doesnt do much anyways I've focused on putting my extra 3 pouts into IF making me pretty tough and still fairly quick when i wear my loomed heraldic mail with my loomed plate mittens.

I do agree with the fact we need to change how ineffective WPF is for melee which it should be a primary attribute that people should invest at least a couple of points in. But as of right now it's only really needed for archers and even pure throwers can scrape by with 3 wm and be accurate as they need to be.

[Vkvkvk]

No don't buff agi, i used to be leve 34 and with 10 WM and extremely high riding.  I spam the shit out of tons of people on rage ball and most of the them don't got the chance to fight back. Current system is fine. Don't listen to the 0.06 speed difference, its bullshit. I clearly swing alot faster with 10 WM than with 0 WM, with 0 Wm i cant spam no shit with quaterstaff, 10 WM i can spam a hell out of it

Edit: you have no idea how OP archers  / xbowman will become if Wps got buff.

Lol fucking really, comparing 0 WM to 10 WM.

[BlindGuy]

Players worried that allowing more wpf will buff ranged too much. Why not have the ranged wpf's stay as they are, and melee wpf's DONT suffer the same insane increase in cost. That way you can have 18/21 with 160 archery wpf, or 18/21 with 250 melee wpf. Problem solved, agility gets its reason d'etre back, ranged doesnt get massive boost. Thank me later.

[Thomek]

You sir, lack conviction in your statements. A majority of my Buff cRPG post regarded buffing athletics and WPF speed, yet you opted to give it a negative. For shame. 

I lack conviction because there are 2 things I've been lobbying for since big patch.

This is:
Change cav, I think they are way too effective atm. It's a lame way to die, adding lameness to the game. 1hitting madness.
Second is the advantages of STR vs AGI in a melee footsoldier perspective. I want to balance that.

Since big patch I've written a huge amount of material on this subject, complete with graphs and graphics. I'm on your side in some points, but I haven't seen any will or hint or solution or anything coming from devs on this. Giving up I guess.

In the meantime cRPG becomes what it becomes.

Cav is too powerful: Produces more ranged counters.
*produces more random deaths. Don't come bitching about awareness, I see the very top players getting killed by cav all the time. It's simply impossible to keep awareness on so many targets for the human brain. Random death is not fun.

STR is too powerful: cRPG has slow duels where hits matters less
*then players complain it is slow...

All in all, elements that make the game lamer are growing.

I downvoted your post without reading the whole even. I understand that NA is a different reality, but cav is very popular atm in EU. Never saw that many cav as nowadays. And more ranged accuracy? Are you aware of what insane shots skilled ranged players pull off? Some of your ideas were just badly researched, there are many things not possible, or too time consuming to fix in the warband engine. (WSE can fix some things, but it is a very very time consuming process. It must be worth the effort.)

Believe me, if there is a veteran lobbyist it's me    Protip: 1 small change at a time. Not a bunch of suggestions in one post..

Other than that, if this reply is a bit retarded it's because I'm a little bit drunk. Cheers!

[Patoson]

I think that the mod is quite balanced in this aspect. When I tried an agi build, I did swing a little faster (not too much, but noticeable), and moved faster.

What do you expect? To swing double as fast as str builds or what?

[BlindGuy]

I think that the mod is quite balanced in this aspect. When I tried an agi build, I did swing a little faster (not too much, but noticeable), and moved faster.

What do you expect? To swing double as fast as str builds or what?

If str hit twice as hard, then yes, agi should swing twice as fast. Your post bullshit btw, agility doesnt affect swing speed, only wpf does.

[Bobthehero]

Str doesn't his twice as strong, unless you go with 0 PS and the str build got 13 PS.

[BlindGuy]

Str doesn't his twice as strong, unless

Aha!

No, on serious note: STR has many more advantages to agility, the ONLY disadvantage is movement speed.

[Bobthehero]

Read the whole thing for fuck sake, you need an extreme build compared to another extreme build to have 2x damage, my own 32/9 will not do twice the damage of a 9/32 build and that 9/32 shouldn't his twice as fast.

[Morty]

In my opinion it's just crazy how little WPF is really needed for builds. Hardly anyone goes past 3 weapon master if they use it all which is unfair to archers who have to put points into it if they want to hit anything while melee shoves those points into shield or IF

This x1000. WPF needs to be more necessary. Right now it's so secondary its basically a preference.

[Wraist]

Aha!

No, on serious note: STR has many more advantages to agility, the ONLY disadvantage is movement speed.

"The only disadvantage is movement speed", makes it seem like movement speed isn't a big deal. A agi build could go in, hit a strength build and then get out of his range before the strength build could strike back.

Even if strength could do twice the damage [which Bob is correct in saying that it'll have to be 13PS compared to 0], then why should agi swing twice as fast? You never explicitly state a reason, and if it did swing twice as fast than agi would be significantly better than strength.

Morty, why should WPF and more specifically WM matter more? Ranged needs it more compared to melee as melee needs shield/IF more than ranged. Should we make IF matter more since it is a secondary skill and is only done on preference?

[rustyspoon]

In my opinion the big problem with agi builds is the speed reduction for athletics.

As speed reduction for athletics is percentage-based high athletics builds are penalized FAR more than low athletics builds.

Agi characters are the only infantry that are highly penalized because of the map.

That's why I hate those maps that have tons of hills or little bumps. A str build - which already moves slow as shit - is barely affected, whereas an agi build moves as fast as a snail.

WPF doesn't need a buff. High athletics characters are also really great until you walk on a sand dune or fight in a castle.

Reduce the athletics penalty to high athletics builds.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

IMO, reduce the gradient penalty to agi players.

[Balton]

As it is now, WM is purely for ranged & hybrids. For other characters it's one of those "I have extra points and don't know what to do with them" stats.

[Renten]

Not only do hills murder your movement speed, but just about every floor that isn't stone does too, especially the wood floors on the castle walls. It makes no sense for a wooden floor to decrease your movement speed by 50%.