Is this balanced?

[Aseplhood]

Hello.
Basically, I'm hella tired of some polearms. They're mostly op (in this moment 50% of people close this page) in my opinion, and I'd like to know your words. So, let's compare... The most used 2h sword, with the best acceptable stats, Danish Great Sword, and the most annoying polearm IMO, glaive.

Actually, let's put up another compare, which is Danish with Great Long Axe.

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I'm going to review the first pair.

Lenght: Danish 124, Glaive: 160
Weight: Danish 2.5, Glaive 2.8 - Although, 0.3 is really few, practically unnoticable thing.
Difficulty: Danish 15, Glaive 16 - Plus to devs. Glaive may be used "from" build 18/21, which is "slow"
Speed rating: Danish 92, Glaive 90 - Do you notice any difference in practic?
Thrust damage: Danish 24, Glaive 22
Swing damage: Danish 40, Glaive 39 - 1 point less... wow.
Number of slots: Danish 2, Glaive 2 - Don't you think this shouldn't be the same?

Alright, you may think, that the Danish is better! But not really...
Prices: Danish 15.922, Glaive 10.708

Awesome, right? It's not like the price matters that much, the upkeep does. 5k is a big difference actually.
Now, summing up, for 5.214, you've got A LITTLE worse weapon in stats, but hey...

Practical:

Every hit you cause with glaive will most likely stun your opponent! Yay!
This means, that if I do a thrust - 22 damage, then I will be able to make a swing without any resistance! - 39 damage
Sums up, and you've got 61 damage in total. Most of the people will be left with 1/4 of their hps.
Plus, the stun effect also applies to block after holded attack, and you can make another one. ( nothing will resist the stun )

But that's not the end!

Look at the ranges. Isn't that a big difference?
In common, this means, that everyone go 18/21 or 18/24 with their glaives, backpedalling, constantly hitting their opponents.

Final:
Overpowered? I'd say so.


The other pair.

GLA - Great Long Axe

Lenght: Danish 124, GLA 125 - Nearly the same...
Weight: Danish 2.5, GLA 3.5 - Although, 1 is really few, practically unnoticable thing.
Difficulty: Danish 15, GLA 16 - Plus to devs. GLA may be used "from" build 18/21, which is "slow"
Speed rating: Danish 92, GLA 91 - Wow, the whole 1 point.
Thrust damage: Danish 24, GLA 16
Swing damage: Danish 40, GLA 45 - Tadadadum
Number of slots: Danish 2, GLA 2

Prices: Danish 15.922, Glaive 12.649
Oh noes, is this cheaper as well?!

Practical:

Bonus to shieeelds! Hurray! This means that:
1. Shielder's shield will fall after around 3-4 holded attacks.
2. 1h vs GLA? You're dead. The stun will kill you.
3. After successful stun, you deal two swing attacks. 45 + 45 = 90. Easy? Easy. You're nearly dead. ( considering you wear any useful armour)

The rest is pretty much the same thing, except for the lenght.
Better tell me, do you think that the lenghts are the same?

Final:
Shielders, beware.


Now, check out things like Great Long Bardiche, and compare the stats yourself.

Before you ask. I haven't been just owned at any server by any glaive/Great Long Axe.
The things you see there, are the result of long time seeing glaives being op.

[Gurnisson]

And yet again, some guy who have not played both classes comes to whine. Fun fact, GLA is much shorter than the danish when swung.

[Tzar]

Polestagger needs to go then polearms be fine...

The glaive could you a price increase but thats about it.. just don't follow them if they can backpedal faster then you can walk forward..

The gla like many said have shorter reach so you cant rly compare them..

[Stabby_Dave]

Polearms are a harder class to play than 2h - fact.

[BlackMilk]

It is senseless to argue with people that are against poles because they are 2h lovers that suck and always die to polearmers.
I played more Gens 2h then most of those people played in total and still I played 85 % of my Gens as Pole. Whenever I played 2h with mw german or mw great sword or danish greatsword I never had any problems fighting polearmers of any kind, because 2h(swords) have clearly better animations.

Every 2hander that dies to a polearmer in 1 vs 1 is just the lesser skilled person.

You're joking right?

[Uumdi]

Not to argue too much with you, there are a couple things to point out.  2H animations are generally better, with more reach (I forget how much, but its a good +23 on the thrust), along with ability to thrust.  90 vs 92 speed is somewhat significant, though if you ask me, 90 is plenty.

What I can suggest though, is that they make the Great Long Axe unbalanced.  Not sure why the polearm axes aren't and the 2H ones are.  Glaive is fine the way it is I think though.  Also remove polestun.

[_Tak_]

Replace pole stagger with knock down or just give stab and overhead pole stagger

[Aseplhood]

Fun fact, GLA is much shorter than the danish when swung.

Video please.

Polearms are a harder class to play than 2h - fact.

What kind of weapon are you using IG?

And yet again, some guy who have not played both classes comes to whine

Because in your eyes everything looks like whining, while it isn't.

The glaive could you a price increase but thats about it..

Except for this guy, none of you has compared the stats to prices.

Also, are you saying that every time you thrust, you get a free swing? Because that is also not true.

I don't mean thrusts only. But get hit by a glaive with side swing, and check out how often won't you be able to block the next attack.

[Quallen]

Video please.

You might want to take a trip over to the game mechanic mega thread and educate yourself on the animation ranges (melee reach section.) As for a video hows WaltF4's video of a 117 length practice sword outranging a 182 length scythe on the stab? Of course the stab is the extreme case but its still important to learn that if you have a 2h sword that uses the 2h stab animation you get to alpha strike.

As for backpedaling away from people that's a problem with the current metagame. No balanced build is backpedaling away from any other balanced build.

[Ronin]

I do not know if this is a bug or not, but sometimes polearms (glaives mostly) seem to be hitting extremely fast. Seems like they hit even faster than a mw katana. I have no proof to that, but if it is not a bug that only happens to me you must know it as well. The same thing didn't happen with any other weapon.

[Okkam]

Remove this fantasy weapon from game (danish and german) make GLA unbalanced but add crushthrough = Good old Native balance.

[Grumbs]

(click to show/hide)

Polearms :
+0   Stab
+15 Overhead
+23 Right
+15 Left
+30 If you stab while mounted or holding a shield

2 handed :
+65 Stab
+45 Overhead
+30 Right
+30 Left

1 handed :
+40 Stab
+30 Overhead
+40 Right
+15 Left

Arkonor

(click to show/hide)

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80 (This may be slightly wrong with the new stab animation)

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html)

I was going to go through and work it out, but just look and compare the info. 2 hand stab and overhead seem longer than anything the glaive can do. Glaive may or may not have longer side swings

I think both sets of info are probably not 100% scientific though

Remember the Glaive gets some horrible interaction with the environment too because you hold it near the middle. Every weapon "staggers" the opponent a bit on a successful hit, just polearms can extend that period a bit sometimes. I wouldn't mind this being a uniform amount for every weapon though, or based purely on damage dealt

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

The other pair.

GLA - Great Long Axe

Lenght: Danish 124, GLA 125 - Nearly the same...

hahahaha...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GLA has same reach as danish? oh god you have no idea of animations right? come back to make a thread when you'll know to not blindly follow the stats on the crpg site

[Gurnisson]

Video please.

Can't be arsed, but 'everyone' knows that polearms get's a lot less added length than two-handers. A GLA is much shorter than a danish, and I think it says enough about your skills that you need a video proof to see that.

[Aseplhood]

hahahaha...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GLA has same reach as danish? oh god you have no idea of animations right? come back to make a thread when you'll know to not blindly follow the stats on the crpg site

Oh well then, that's not my fault some intelligent guy placed stats like these on crpg site. I was being driven by what I saw...
I still won't believe some dry informations like "this animation is longer blablabla". I want to see a practical meaning, because all the time someone has a glaive, he backpedalls, I make attack with a Danish, I miss, miliseconds after that, he keeps backpedalling, making his swing, and he hits...

Also, in my opinion polearms attract you to come close enaugh to get kicked. Atleast for me. A good example would be BIA_Tony who was fighting with a polearm, 3 agility, and kicking all the time (successfully).

And again, no one has said his opinion about the prices? Don't you think Glaive is pretty similiary powerful to Danish, and still 5k cheaper?

What made me post this thread mostly, was many pictures of one guy with glaive owning 5 others without being hit... And he wasn't any pro.