Weapon reaches explained (video)

[Arkonor]

Hi there

I did a new and more accurate test and actually recorded the main part of it and posted that on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntqFkHWdItk

As you should know the weapon reaches of 2 handed, 1 handed and polearms are quite a bit different depending on type and direction.
The shortest of them all is the polearm stab.

Here are numbers you can add to reaches of weapons to equalize all of the weapons and their attack directions.

Polearms :
+0   Stab
+15 Overhead
+23 Right
+15 Left
+30 If you stab while mounted or holding a shield

2 handed :
+65 Stab
+45 Overhead
+30 Right
+30 Left

1 handed :
+40 Stab
+30 Overhead
+40 Right
+15 Left

Arkonor

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

It may well sound dumb but I don't know how to interpret your numbers...

1h stab +40... Does that mean +40 arbitrary M&B distance messuring units?

[Arkonor]

It may well sound dumb but I don't know how to interpret your numbers...

1h stab +40... Does that mean +40 arbitrary M&B distance messuring units?

Just add these numbers to the length number on c-rpg.net page.

For example 140 length "Long Bardiche" has about the same stab length as an 100 length "Arabian Guard Sword"

[Snoozer]

wow thank you for the video i watched it all im amazed as well 

personally idk about you guys but should the stats of the weapons be updated to show this? its rather obvious that the current stats of weapons does not tell you enough seeing how if this is out of date many other factors in the stats could be as well

theres always been hearsay about length and this video shows a lot if its not debunked
(i have no talent for this stuff i do not even know how he made the test area -_-)

maybe the other myths about some weapons being faster/stronger then there stats may have more merit then we originally believed

let me try to make an example(i know its unrealistic but there have been questions whee theres no factual way of answering

weapons name

stab reach:(actual reach of stab)

overhead reach:(actual reach of overhead)

right reach:(actual reach of right)

left reach:(actual reach of left)

reach effects on ath:(walt made a study showing the length of the weapon effect the running speed of a character that should be known)

weight:

weights effect on damage:(there nothing that explains this only that a certain weight gives more damage and i have hear terms called "block stun"

wights effect on weapon speed:(same as damage)

weights effect on ath:

actual speed(if speed is different based off of which attack you do it should be noted)

slots(there are certain items that have no slots on their stats notably the shields
 (hascarl is two while knightly heater is one yet it says nothing on site)

difficulty

any special attributes(polestagger or this stunlock for example)

any requirements(cant be holstered for example)

and that is just stuff i can think of sure of course its alot of stuff but it should be available to stop these debates once and for all so people can find full proof information its not like you have to be it in tags ingame(would be nice) just a little part of the forums like an armory that tells this information

[Snoozer]

also the inconsistency of the attacks at farther ranges is also troubling...

it makes me wonder how many times i missed just because the hit boxes were being fussy about it

[Xant]

It should be noted that the OP was sure that his last numbers were right even though they were completely fucked, so the numbers here should probably be taken with a grain of salt as well. A for effort, though, but the OP mentions nowhere that the numbers could be off(again).

[Arkonor]

It should be noted that the OP was sure that his last numbers were right even though they were completely fucked, so the numbers here should probably be taken with a grain of salt as well. A for effort, though, but the OP mentions nowhere that the numbers could be off(again).

Well now you can see how accurate it is by yourself.

Last tests I did were done with just random weapons I found at vendors in the world. I wasn't going for full accuracy there. As I did explain it was more done for myself then and figured I share the info.

Little did I know that most people actually thought really highly of the old numbers so my post was a bit easily attacked since it wasn't done with same accuracy.

So yeah I spent about 2 more hours on this for you guys. The numbers are pretty close to what the originals were but should have about +/- 3 or so now.

[Jarlek]

Nice video and nice showings.

I guess I'll have to apologize for my post in the other thread. I just couldn't believe that the polearm stab was the shortest attack IN THE WHOLE GAME (!) and thought you must have done something terribly wrong in your test. I stand corrected and hope you will accept my apology.

The only thing I have to say about this test is that it also should be done on an enemy or at least one who can take damage from the attack. Maybe there is something different there. I doubt it, but it should still be tested. As a part of my apology I would like to help you out with this. If you ever want to test this with someone else, just ask me and I'll help you. Is it possible for you to host a multiplayer session with these custom weapons in? We could then check them out.

Thank you for your testing. This really helps out with understanding this game.


On a side note:
This really makes us have to think about giving polearms a small boost with their stab, mainly with the reach. The stabs are the main attack of spears, pikes and forks and should also be the longest attack of them. Maybe give them a secondary stab or something or the option to do the 1h-polearm stab even when you DON'T have a shield. Because no matter what. Stabs should be the longest attack of ALL weapon types. Having polearms not only having the shortest attack animation, but their stab also the shortest of them ALL is just unbalanced and needs to be changed.

PS: I think we finally found Waltf4's long lost brother ;)

[Arkonor]

(click to show/hide)

Nice video and nice showings.

I guess I'll have to apologize for my post in the other thread. I just couldn't believe that the polearm stab was the shortest attack IN THE WHOLE GAME (!) and thought you must have done something terribly wrong in your test. I stand corrected and hope you will accept my apology.

The only thing I have to say about this test is that it also should be done on an enemy or at least one who can take damage from the attack. Maybe there is something different there. I doubt it, but it should still be tested. As a part of my apology I would like to help you out with this. If you ever want to test this with someone else, just ask me and I'll help you. Is it possible for you to host a multiplayer session with these custom weapons in? We could then check them out.

Thank you for your testing. This really helps out with understanding this game.


On a side note:
This really makes us have to think about giving polearms a small boost with their stab, mainly with the reach. The stabs are the main attack of spears, pikes and forks and should also be the longest attack of them. Maybe give them a secondary stab or something or the option to do the 1h-polearm stab even when you DON'T have a shield. Because no matter what. Stabs should be the longest attack of ALL weapon types. Having polearms not only having the shortest attack animation, but their stab also the shortest of them ALL is just unbalanced and needs to be changed.

PS: I think we finally found Waltf4's long lost brother ;)

Thanks for a nice reply.

I do think making the test weapons and a multiplayer version of this test is more trouble then it is worth however. Easier test that would actually hit 2 flies with one stone would be to just go to the duel server and equip the worst weapons of each category and hit a guy in the best armor. It shouldn't take long to see that Jeremus's hitboxes are the same as every player in cRPG at the same time it would show without a doubt that this is true for totally unmodified version of the game as well.

I also did few of those tests in native to see if they are the same there. The few I tested seem to function the same as cRPG ones. So if you find that these should be different you shouldn't blame the cRPG developers. You should just ask them if they could change it from native.

I also did tests with the flamberge animations. The reaches of it are:

Stab = Polearm
Right = 2H
Left = Polearm
Overhead = Polearm

I also did tests to make sure it still uses 2H wpf for all attack directions. Thankfully it does for the bearers of the mighty flamberge.

[San]

Much better than your last topic. Makes me think about the 1h stabs in comparison to right swing.

[Teeth]

(click to show/hide)

Thanks for a nice reply.

I do think making the test weapons and a multiplayer version of this test is more trouble then it is worth however. Easier test that would actually hit 2 flies with one stone would be to just go to the duel server and equip the worst weapons of each category and hit a guy in the best armor. It shouldn't take long to see that Jeremus's hitboxes are the same as every player in cRPG at the same time it would show without a doubt that this is true for totally unmodified version of the game as well.

I also did few of those tests in native to see if they are the same there. The few I tested seem to function the same as cRPG ones. So if you find that these should be different you shouldn't blame the cRPG developers. You should just ask them if they could change it from native.

I also did tests with the flamberge animations. The reaches of it are:

Stab = Polearm
Right = 2H
Left = Polearm
Overhead = Polearm

I also did tests to make sure it still uses 2H wpf for all attack directions. Thankfully it does for the bearers of the mighty flamberge.

If you are planning on doing tests like these on a damage taking player, be sure to let him stand against a wall or fence. You move back a little when you get hit. Best would probably be to just use a practice dummy.

I haven't watched the video entirely yet, I will later. Looks pretty solid so far. Still, I'm having a hard time believing those numbers.

[Kafein]

Poor Jeremus


Also, this overlooks the most important aspect of hitting first : athletics and agi, and the third : weapon speed and wpf. Movement control is very important and can act as a reach advantage to a large degree. Attack speed helps too. I've seen many slow greatsword users being "outreached" repeatedly by fast 2h mace human fleas, simply because they can't predict when to strike. It's either too late (they are struck first) or too early (the enemy dodges).

[Teeth]

Poor Jeremus


Also, this overlooks the most important aspect of hitting first : athletics and agi, and the third : weapon speed and wpf. Movement control is very important and can act as a reach advantage to a large degree. Attack speed helps too. I've seen many slow greatsword users being "outreached" repeatedly by fast 2h mace human fleas, simply because they can't predict when to strike. It's either too late (they are struck first) or too early (the enemy dodges).

All of this has jack shit to do with researching the range of certain swings.

[Snoozer]

well could this all be fixed be simply making it where instead of holding the spear dead center we hold a little lower?

i can only think of holding in the center if you intend to use both sides of the weapon and seeing how we do not use the butt of the spear in combat we might as well just readjust the holding of the weapon

and i agree with zap spear should be the dominant stab weapon in the game just for the obvious reason that spears are designed that way imo

[Arkonor]

well could this all be fixed be simply making it where instead of holding the spear dead center we hold a little lower?

i can only think of holding in the center if you intend to use both sides of the weapon and seeing how we do not use the butt of the spear in combat we might as well just readjust the holding of the weapon

and i agree with zap spear should be the dominant stab weapon in the game just for the obvious reason that spears are designed that way imo

I would also like the stab to be a bit longer out. Getting an overhead stab like some of the single player mods have would also make for more interesting fighting styles with spears.

My theory with the shortened stab animation is that some developer at Taleworlds got the assignment of making spears better weapons for the native kill festival. Since the problem with longer reaching polearms was that stab would get ineffective if someone would for example just hug you (that originally was suppose to get countered by kicking them away (but kick got nerfed)). So what the developer probably did was just shortening the animation for the stab and call it the day.