AGI needs some love back.

[Z_E_N]

After various tests by different people, and the general "feel" of the current gameplay, I'm suggesting a compromise between the old AGI stat/skill system and the current one.

Let's face it,  AGI is completely gimped atm.  As much as people try to swear by it now, it is nowhere near as powerful as doing a full STR build.  The only time AGI is worth anything is with the riding skill or shield skill.

First,  AGI no longer has any passive boosts.  We all believed it increased attack speed, and it used to, but Walt-F4 disproved that in another thread.  STR gives both a slight damage increase (was this ever proved?) and HP boost.

Now lets take the skills and some proposed compromises.

Weapon Master -  Most of us can agree the old system of AGI spammers was a bit much.  AGI increased attack speed, WPF increased attack speed, people would grab a heavy weapon and spam like crazy.  Now however, it's useless.  The difference between 113 WPF (0 Weapon master skill) and 150ish WPF (5/6 WM) is pretty much nonexistant.  AGI characters also lost their damage because of this, because they made up for some of the loss in power strike with higher WPF.

Compromise:  Keep it at where AGI does not increase attack speed, but put WPF scaling back to where it was before.  This way high AGI characters wont be double dipping to impossible attack speeds, but they will get a little bit more damage, and still have a slightly better attack speed.  Also, this helps out the archers a little, not really increasing their damage, but making them more accurate.  They already got nerfed so much that damage is nothing, but now they are so desparate for kills they fire into every melee and TK all the time.  This would give them back some accuracy.  Still low damage, but at least let them be accurate.


Athletics -  This was a surprise change for me.  Until the recent Athletics thread and some tests I had no clue this was nerfed.  It always "felt" off, but now I realize why.   This should never have been changed at all.  There were never any complaints pre-patch of "OMG ATHLETICS WHORE NERF".   Yes..its annoying running after high speed archers, but they are sacrificing some for that speed.  If they have to sacrifice damage for that speed, people that want to catch them should have to sacrifice for the speed as well.

Anyway, thats all I have for now, any suggestions or comments from others would be appreciated.  If I think of anything else I'll post more.

[POOPHAMMER]

I can not but help but agree with you. I have done both STR and AGI builds and it seems that STR builds reign over AGI. The speed advantage that AGI gives is just not worthwhile. Yeah, you can run around faster for a bit but the weaker blows, evasion, and non existent HP just lets you get blown away in one hit without having any kind of impact on the target. STR builds are the dominant ones on the battlefield. I do no agreee that AGI needs a buff, I think STR needs a nerf, or some middle ground.  There should be no dominant stat choice, they need to be equal. As of right now STR is the only good choice.

Lets think about this.

STR lets you have this

More power strike - more damage per blow

More Iron Flesh - More damage you can take

More Power Throw - more accuracy and damage per throwing item

More Power Draw - More arrow damage and accuracy, though it does negate on draw speed


All of those together with any strength build lets you be a monster. Anyone with anything more in AGI will just be blown away in one or two hits.

Weapons just require STR to wield. WPF? What a joke. Why need to swing fast when you can just one hit. All you need to do is have some common sense to manual block, have IF to soak in the ranged (other than the ridiculous throwing garbage, my lordly black armour with 6 IF can get one hit with throwing shit)

Something needs to be done, agility is not useful at all unless you just want to walk fast. Who needs to swing fast when you can just have a deathblow? Plate is a joke to wear anymore.

[MountedRhader]

Agil is underpowered for some things.
Others its plain retarded (40 agil + side sword)

BTW poophammer you hit my peasant alt in siege when I was trying to lvl. tsk tsk 

[Z_E_N]

Agil is underpowered for some things.
Others its plain retarded (40 agil + side sword)

BTW poophammer you hit my peasant alt in siege when I was trying to lvl. tsk tsk 

High agility on side sword means it will have a low PS, also where you are getting all those stat points is beyond me considering it has an 8 req.

Low PS on a sword = no damage vs. medium or higher weapons because (read above), the WPF scaling sucks and AGI characters can no longer use WPF to gain a little bit of the damage they lost for not having PS.

I would like to point out that Walt-F4 also proved that having a fast weapon was far faster than having a high WPF on a slow weapon.  Thus, a full STR/Power Strike character only needs to wield a fast weapon (95+) to outspam people.


I thought of something else that was nerfed for AGI:  Shields.  Shield skill no longer provide the "extra coverage" that they did before, as even tall shields can be shot around/over.  While this makes sense, it's still another way AGI was nerfed.   I wouldn't recommend changing this back, as long as AGI gets some love in other areas.

[weight]

No, doing what you propose will bring back the 200+ wpf archers who can shoot accurately across the map.

[Z_E_N]

No, doing what you propose will bring back the 200+ wpf archers who can shoot accurately across the map.

But thats the thing, archers should be accurate, because they do crap damage

[Rumblood]

What are you trying to fix exactly? I don't see why agi should be changed.

[Ujin]

But thats the thing, archers should be accurate, because they do crap damage

You don't get it , Weight is an archer himself.

Agi is good as it is.

[Murrogh]

No, doing what you propose will bring back the 200+ wpf archers who can shoot accurately across the map.

That was more because of a portion WPF carrying over from generation to generation, less because of it requiring fewer points to reach a given WPF level.

[Z_E_N]

What are you trying to fix exactly? I don't see why agi should be changed.

AGI should be changed because at the moment is does absolutely nothing useful except let you ride faster/better horses and carry better shields. 

STR lets you hit harder, survive longer, you can swing just as fast as an agi character (130 WPF is barely slower than 170 WPF and faster if you use a faster weapon).  Wear better armor, use more powerful weapons..

The only reason why AGI was "overpowered" prepatch is as mentioned, the WPF generation boost.  Also we had characters that were much higher level than some (now everyone stops at level 31).

I have always played AGI stacked characters prepatch, so I am very comfortable with the playstyle.  Now, I play full strength (as in 3 AGI), and I completely destroy AGI characters.  Its laughable, even people who are mixed (18/18) will often die in one shot and can not spam me at all.  They _should_ be able to spam me when I have 3 AGI, but my WPF is enough to match theirs.

Edit:  Oh, and for those that say their 160 WPF is enough to spam 110 WPF, go read Walt-F4's study.  There is barely any difference in swing speeds between that.

[cmp]

They _should_ be able to spam me when I have 3 AGI

Unless you're using a maul, nope.

[Gnjus]

But thats the thing, archers should be accurate, because they do crap damage

Quite the opposite: archers should have a reticule as wide as pre-patch xbowmen (maybe even wider)...in other words: they shouldnt be able to hit shit but when they do it should do some proper damage (with ofc all that range/armor calculations taken into consideration)......the fact is: arrows are deadly and kill people quite efficiently.....but archers are/were not snipers, Robin Hood and similar stories are myths and legends, a joke. Even if there were a few people in history of the world who were extraordinary with bow and arrows those are just exceptions that confirm the rule. And yes, now you can start the flood about how realism is not important and all that......and after youre done with it please pull the lever and flush it out, then you can login to your WoW/whatever account and play in peace.

[Z_E_N]

Quite the opposite: archers should have a reticule as wide as pre-patch xbowmen (maybe even wider)...in other words: they shouldnt be able to hit shit but when they do it should do some proper damage (with ofc all that range/armor calculations taken into consideration)......the fact is: arrows are deadly and kill people quite efficiently.....but archers are/were not snipers, Robin Hood and similar stories are myths and legends, a joke. Even if there were a few people in history of the world who were extraordinary with bow and arrows those are just exceptions that confirm the rule. And yes, now you can start the flood about how realism is not important and all that......and after youre done with it please pull the lever and flush it out, then you can login to your WoW/whatever account and play in peace.

This isn't a thread on how archers should be to be realistic.

This is a thread about balancing the two stats.

Your post is moot.

Besides, if a developer says that AGI should be unbalanced and much weaker than STR like his post above says, then thats how it should be right?  They are providing this game for free after all, so now my argument is invalid; because the devs want it how it is.

[Gnjus]

This isn't a thread on how archers should be to be realistic.

You're telling it to the wrong person. 

[John]

They _should_ be able to spam me when I have 3 AGI, but my WPF is enough to match theirs.

Edit:  Oh, and for those that say their 160 WPF is enough to spam 110 WPF, go read Walt-F4's study.  There is barely any difference in swing speeds between that.

I hope you realize that the game intentionally prevents "spamming people" as an option in all but the most extreme speed difference cases, such as great maul overheads.