Convert Throwing Lances to Roman Pilums

[Centurion]

Looks good meow. Also would you mind helping with designs for roman armor. Im having trouble. I know the good mods for the armours just not how to input them.

[Patricia]

I see, Native having a boner for throwing as always.

Thing is throwing lances are just too easy, you can one hit people while just running around, I'd know, I tried and it's easy as hell.

I think at one point you mentionned crossbows being overpowered because you can kill people in 2 hits which makes me laugh, since all you use is COUCH (easily one hit capable) THROWING LANCES (easily one hit capable from a range) LONG MAUL (easily one hit capable through a block).


I say just severely reduce the speed rating and the damage by a bit.

[BlackMilk]

Make throwing lances damage be reduced to 35 pierce (this will be new highest pierce damage weapon thrown), but get triple damage to shields.  This offers a useful weapon for team support in getting rid of OP shielders (huscarl), but without the excessive damage of the current model.

I especially like this.

[Kafein]

Throwing axes can allready crush shields very reliably. The tradeoff is realistic arc and a less unrealistic reload speed. Throwing lances have no tradeoff. Just randomly go in a mob or be alone. The only thing threatening you is arrows and bolts. You are immune to cav (1 lance in the horse, then in the guy, or directly in the guy). In a mob you just go near the enemy and randomly throw. As one hit will likely be one kill...

I stated my opinion on needed changes about throwing in another thread, but the short version is :

Make it dependant on running direction. Throwing a steel weapon without running forward in a straight line for 2meters is just meant to fail utterly.

[Tai Feng]

+1

[Dravic]

If you dont want to remove throwing lances, change their dmg type from pierce to cut. it will be shield cutter madness, tho tincans wont die in 1hit as they do now.

[Cyclopsided]

Posted in another topic

Pila were used to disable shields by making them too cumbersome to wield. They were not designed to kill people but to break phalanxes.


Throwing lances are stupid, they need considerable balancing or to be removed (or remade into the role of a Pilum using on-hit weight adding triggers at the cost of making them 30 damage and a bit more accurate. Seriously it would be cool to have something tactical like that rather than an "lol insta-kill no skill".)

It isn't that they are accurate but how inaccurate they are which makes them only usable in close to melee range. And oh yes do they one hit kill. Sure, there are times when people survive but that is generally rare or a high HP build being hit by a low PT thrower with no speed bonus.
I'm a thrower and with 10 PT I can one-shot Wallace and he is a super heavy tin can. I should not one-hit a guy with 70+ body armor and 10+ IronFlesh unless it is a headshot.
They don't currently serve any game use for balance or an interesting gimmick like "ohoho it adds tons of weight to a shield like a pilum so it makes it too heavy to use".

The usual arguments in favor of the throwing lance come along these few points so I'll just counter them now:
1. You only get 2 per stack. : You can pick them up. That is 2 dead things or destroyed shields. per stack. You can have 4 stacks.
2. They are really expensive. : Uh yeah, So is wearing plate. The top tier of everything is really expensive. Except you can onehit guys wearing plate which costs way more.
3. They have terrible accuracy : Not a reason to give them sympathy but rather a reason why they are so bad for the game. And due to it being an inaccurate just-be-close weapon that means it requires little skill to use effectively, and, more player skill produces no rewards.

Oh, how can I forget this too: They are a weapon that 1 hits enemies with little to no danger to himself. It is a high reward - no risk weapon. Every other weapon that can come even anywhere close to the one hit capabilities of a throwing lances are High risk to the user.

*Adding another note to this post is that the defense of one imbalanced thing by citing another even more imbalanced thing [see: jarids] is not an actual credible argument.
**Throwing is undergoing a nerf already to make jarids, for example, not super ultra OP anymore.

Anyways, the way pilums would work is that when a pilum hit a shield it would add, let's say, 15 weight to the shield. This would render the character much slower and disable the shield's usability considerably --but not completely -- much like what actual pila do. This would be a logical and functional rebalance of throwing lances that I think is rather reasonable.

[Native_ATS]

I see, Native having a boner for throwing as always.

Thing is throwing lances are just too easy, you can one hit people while just running around, I'd know, I tried and it's easy as hell.

I think at one point you mentionned crossbows being overpowered because you can kill people in 2 hits which makes me laugh, since all you use is COUCH (easily one hit capable) THROWING LANCES (easily one hit capable from a range) LONG MAUL (easily one hit capable through a block).


I say just severely reduce the speed rating and the damage by a bit.

i dare you to use a long maul and go 8-1  u miss once they spam you  lol, am all str, so am slow i use the long maul for laughs, real 1 hit kills weapons is my long axe o.o

[Tristan]

+1 op

[Diomedes]

Before this gets implemented the main game designers/balancers need to work out a coherent picture of what throwing should look like.  The issue is when throwers become a master of all trades instead of a jack of all trades.  It shouldn't be the case that a build  is both unbearably dangerous in both distance and close quarters.  I think the main premises of the throwing build are that it should either be a supporting class, for dedicated throwers, or a hybrid technique that gives protection against kiting bowmen and horses while slighting handicapping them against more dedicated hand-to-hand builds.  How this can be done or whether it objectively should be done I really don't know.

[Hauptmann]

I support this 100%. Lances are super silly, no other weapon has the damage potential.

[MountedRhader]

Change Lances to Pilums = Yes
Reduce Damage to lances to 52 give or take a few = Yes
Remove lances altogether = Not quite .. 

[Armbrust_Schtze]

DONT TRY TO IMPLEMENT ACIENT USELESS STUFF! MOUNT&BLADE: WARBAND ARE SET IN THE MIDDLEAGES!

o how often i has to remember the ppl... -,-

[Cyclopsided]

DONT TRY TO IMPLEMENT ACIENT USELESS STUFF! MOUNT&BLADE: WARBAND ARE SET IN THE MIDDLEAGES!

o how often i has to remember the ppl... -,-

Timelines work like this, you know: <----earlier stuff---------"present" stuff ------- Later stuff--->>
Something that happened earlier can still exist in the "present" (In this case, Middle ages), while stuff that hasn't happened yet can't. Pilums are perfectly OK and they are certainly not useless.

And even more so what this is actually for is balance, which over-rides all other reasoning.

[Madcat]

Throwing axes can allready crush shields very reliably. The tradeoff is realistic arc and a less unrealistic reload speed. Throwing lances have no tradeoff. Just randomly go in a mob or be alone. The only thing threatening you is arrows and bolts. You are immune to cav (1 lance in the horse, then in the guy, or directly in the guy). In a mob you just go near the enemy and randomly throw. As one hit will likely be one kill...

I stated my opinion on needed changes about throwing in another thread, but the short version is :

Make it dependant on running direction. Throwing a steel weapon without running forward in a straight line for 2meters is just meant to fail utterly.

But throwing axes also kills people without a shield. Why would you waste your axes on destroying a shield?