Too much damage overall?

[Freland]

One of the most frustrating things for me in CRPG or any other round based "shooter" is being one shotted (think awp in CS or think throwing lance in CRPG). If it's a headshot i think it's fine. So what are the reasons for the overall increase of damage in crpg?

• Upkeep
  • With the last big patch people were forced by upkeep to wear less expensive equipment than before. That's fine because there were way too many tin cans. Me wearing 69 body armor often got a free kill because my opponent bounced off my armor. So I think upkeep is fine.
  • When I look around the battlefield I see most people are reducing their upkeep by wearing less armor. But still nearly everyone is equipped with a high tier weapon like the german greatsword, the side sword or the warbow. Only polearm users prefer cheaper weapons but just because their best weapons are quite cheap.
  
  
• Heirlooms
  • The first thing most people heirloom is their main weapon. First you get your masterwork weapon of doom before even considering armor. Reason is simple. After my war cleaver went from 43 to 48 cut(after triplle heirlooming) I really felt a big difference. I started one shotting people a lot. I say 50% of my strikes kill the enemy immediately (with 6PS and 160 WPF). That's just too much.
  • Even 1 handers have one shotted me once in a while (probably hitting the head with only 40 head armor). And let's not talk about throwers with a str build. But le's not make this thread another one about how overpowered this class or that build may be.
  • Armor heirlooms are quite bad in comparison. Sure it's nice to increase your armor by two points but the gain isn't noticeable most rounds because you even have to be hit at the "right" part of the body to even benefit from your heirloom while your heirllomed weapon benefits you every attack.

So what are the possibilities to increase survivability.

• Buff hitpoints: Everyone gets 10 more hitpoints right from the start. As always many hitpoints are best if you wear much armor. So this basically buffs pure infantry the most because they usually are able to afford more expensive armor.
• Buff armor heirlooms and/or nerf weapon heirlooms  The danger of increasing armor heirlooms is the possibilty to make those generation 15+ people quite overpowered. Quite hard to balance
• Double weapon prices, and half armor prices: This would probably help but perhaps we would just have as much armor variety as we had before the patch

So every method of fixing the damage amount which came to my mind has some flaws. Any other possibilities?

Please keep this thread civil. If you think throwers, archers, 2h spammers or turtles are overpowered - well that's fine. But please keep those train of thoughts for the respective threads.

[Vicious666]

i like the option 1 and  3

and look my gen

[jspook]

The last time i checked when you hit a man with pretty much any of these weapons in his torso, it really doesnt matter how many hitpoints you have when your guts are pooling around your ankles.
I dont think we need any more buffs to the armor or hitpoints.
the *modest* amount of realism in this game is what makes it fun.  No, its not totally realistic. but we also dont need huge health bars, or healing, or indestructible tin cans walking around.
Armor already has a bonus vs cut dmg, and a neg vs pierce.  this is balanced.

the smart person SHOULD heirloom his weapon first, as he realizes that the armor is made of of 4 distinct pieces.  You do what has the highest benifit first, then deal with the rest.  that is why you have choices.  you cant complain because the smart choices are being made more often than the hard ones.

Double weapon prices, and half armor prices: This would probably help but perhaps we would just have as much armor variety as we had before the patch

This is pretty false because there wasnt much armor diversity at all before the patch.  Almost EVERYONE was walking around with black or milinese plate.  Now you see an almost endless diversity on the field.  everything ranging from lamelar to the complete khergit sets.  I see way more themed warriors then there were before.

[Punisher]

It's fine the way it is now, you mostly die in 2-3 hits max so you need to be a lot more aware of your surroundings and concentrate on blocking/dodging hits rather than just spam spam spam. This lead to an increase of the average skill level in cRPG, it's a lot harder now to get big scores than it was pre-patch.

Making armor cheap would only bring back the situation before the patch, overall gameplay it's a lot better now with most people in medium armor than it was with everybody in heavy-plate pre-patch, it's just more fun and challenging.

[Freland]

This is pretty false because there wasnt much armor diversity at all before the patch.  Almost EVERYONE was walking around with black or milinese plate.  Now you see an almost endless diversity on the field.  everything ranging from lamelar to the complete khergit sets.  I see way more themed warriors then there were before.

Well perhaps I did not express myself clearly (english is not my first language) but that's exactly what I meant (less armor variety before the patch). I tried to work out flaws for every proposal I made.

[Torp]

i dont think it should take 5 hits with a sword to kill a guy, that would make 1 vs 3 situations impossible, and we would have too long battles

[chief]

They made it so everyone uses crappier armor, but everyone is still dealing pretty much the same damage. I rarely survive more than 2 hits from anyone who's not a peasant....then again, I did't before the patch either. (I never have used heavy armor)

[jspook]

Well perhaps I did not express myself clearly (english is not my first language) but that's exactly what I meant (less armor variety before the patch). I tried to work out flaws for every proposal I made.

my bad then.  not trying to flame ya!  I get what you were trying say after I read it with that in mind.  I do think it is ok the way it is now, however.

[Ninja_Khorin]

No, I think damage is fine. Death is a choice, that's my motto. Along with Death is imperfection. And there is no luck, only unintentional skill.

[Vicious666]

No, I think damage is fine. Death is a choice, that's my motto. Along with Death is imperfection. And there is no luck, only unintentional skill.

i prefer to  think that your death is my choice

[Freland]

my bad then.  not trying to flame ya!  I get what you were trying say after I read it with that in mind.  I do think it is ok the way it is now, however.

No harm done. Most of the community seems to share your opinion - I'm fine with that. Game is a lot of fun most of the time 

[bruce]

If you wanted to fix it, making armour more effective would be the way. As in the RCM-type mods, with mail having 60-ish armour rating and plate going up to 120ish, and helms somewhere in that region as well. It'd make armour mean something, especially if pierce got removed from the majority of things, and replaced by (possibly a larger amount of) cutting damage. Etc.

But I sort of like it as it is now, too.

[UrLukur]

Buff REDUCTION, nerf SOAK. Make armors less all-or-nothing, more like reliable-defense.

[Banok]

buff iron flesh to +3 instead of +2

make armour less exponential

example currently it kind of works roughly like this:

0 armour 1 hit to die
30 armour 1 hit to die
60 armour 3 hits to die
70 armour 5 hits to die

for example the difference between 60 and 70 armour is massive, too big. make it scale less so that lower armour values do more. so it would be more like this

0 armour 1 shot
30 armour 3 shots
60 armour4 shots
70 armour 4 shots

Buff REDUCTION, nerf SOAK. Make armors less all-or-nothing, more like reliable-defense.

This too. bouncing is just not a fun gameplay mechanic.

[ThePoopy]

but getting bounced by stuffs that dmg 1% is?