History and Politics

[SteelDevil]

i dont think that any of you quite understood the situation when ure talking about belongings that easily...
you do realize theres no such thing as " this is mine, that is yours " right ? possesion possesions thats just thoughts.

theyre meaningless

all you really need ( or rather ur body ) is some flesh and some water from time to time

the world isnt about belongings.."

if u really needed those u'd have been born with it ^

[BD_Guard_Bane]

I do. I do tell you. And at least make you think about it!

If i do something i'll be a terrorist. If i do something and success i'll be a revolutoinary leader which American government possibly hates. If i do something about it instead of this i'll be arrested. But i do tell you. If you think the way that i think, your children may think the same. Your friends... you tell your friends. I am thinking which is not a crime.

I am actually doing something informing people.

Meh, the informing part is the easiest bit of the revolutionary's to-do list. And everyone's heard it all before anyway. It's good that you want to make cRPG players the focus for your new revolution though.

But, before I accept your ideas and start thinking like you, and teach my children to think like you etc etc , I want to see some real commitment and dedication to the cause.

Here's the deal: I'll go inform people of your radical never before heard political ideas, if you do something impressive enough to get in the news.

[Kalam]

Meh, the informing part is the easiest bit of the revolutionary's to-do list. And everyone's heard it all before anyway. It's good that you want to make cRPG players the focus for your new revolution though.

But, before I accept your ideas and start thinking like you, and teach my children to think like you etc etc , I want to see some real commitment and dedication to the cause.

Here's the deal: I'll go inform people of your radical never before heard political ideas, if you do something impressive enough to get in the news.

I love you, Bane.

[Sultan Eren]

I'm not a billionaire because I don't give enough of a shit about money to make it my life's ambition.

My ambition happens to amount to having a good time and being with my loved ones. I can do these things without being a billionaire, and so don't care enough to attempt to become one.

Also, I damn well chose my religion and nation, even if I didn't choose those other things. Illnesses and my body are affected by lifestyle choices, so there's choices there, too.

The point is, that with enough determination, ability, and a little bit of luck, you could achieve it.

Yes, if I was born in a third-world country with no chance of leaving it, I wouldn't be able to achieve lofty goals without enough luck to afford these opportunities to me. However, that's not the case. I'm in a country with opportunities, and  I can attempt to reap them if I wish.

Funny you mentioned parents, because mine are a perfect example of shifting socio-economic statuses. They were born to poor families from villages in South-East Asia, and proceeded to work their way out of it. They went up to what you'd describe as upper-middle class (millions, granted, not billions) and had us kids.

Fortunes changed largely through poor choices and they lost most what they achieved, bringing them back to the working class below the poverty line.

And here I am, with the opportunity to do anything I bloody well please, if I'd chosen to take the opportunities given to me.

I didn't, and so I'm not on the way to becoming a Senator or ridiculously rich, but it doesn't matter.


Because at the end of the day, I'm free to do whatever I damn well please, as long as it doesn't directly hurt another person physically or financially.

Granted, I've never been to Turkey and don't know what the political and economical situation is like there, but for the rest of us, man, it's nothing like the middle ages.

Well i don't blame you but you live in good standarts which you can "choose". And you think so small, i mean micro. Think macro. I am not only talking about your country, or mine "Turkey".

It don't mean that your choice option is no more if capitalism no long exist.

Economically, Turkey is in the hand of liberal, right-winged capitalists. It's so complicated here people is both liberal and right winged. The main factor here is "religion". People are so uneducated when they see their leader is religious(!) they generally vote him no matter what he says. I assume %90 of Turkish people don't know a shit about what we are talking here. When Atatürk found the country, there were statism. It had lasted until 1950.

[Sultan Eren]

Meh, the informing part is the easiest bit of the revolutionary's to-do list. And everyone's heard it all before anyway. It's good that you want to make cRPG players the focus for your new revolution though.

But, before I accept your ideas and start thinking like you, and teach my children to think like you etc etc , I want to see some real commitment and dedication to the cause.

Here's the deal: I'll go inform people of your radical never before heard political ideas, if you do something impressive enough to get in the news.

Underestimating is what i always hear. You are people from all around the world and we'll share "information". That's a big thing. You are not just crpg players, you have lifes.

I am not a terrorist, not a radical. I do not want to kill no one or i even do not want to harm, no. To see a real commitment, everyone should think the same way. We should do a Chavez-like democratic revolution if we want to see no blood.

My ideas radical? No. If you never heard alike before you should read more.

[BD_Guard_Bane]

Underestimating is what i always hear. You are people from all around the world and we'll share "information". That's a big thing. You are not just crpg players, you have lifes.

I am not a terrorist, not a radical. I do not want to kill no one or i even do not want to harm, no. To see a real commitment, everyone should think the same way. We should do a Chavez-like democratic revolution if we want to see no blood.

My ideas radical? No. If you never heard alike before you should read more.

Ah, so it's the sharing ideas kind of revolution. Not the dramatic statement kind.

In which case, can we see something tangible, rather than a set of nebulous unsubstantiated statements with undefined terminology? In short, I want less rhetoric, and more of a proper Manifesto of Sultan Eren, so I can decide whether your ideas are worth teaching to my children.

 

[Sultan Eren]

I am not a sociologist nor a philosopher. I am just a 21 year old anti-capitalist economy student. My profs everyday teach me capitalism. I am not planing a revolution also. I just think, and share my ideas in this small community.
Capitalism has 1 rival: Communism. I am an anti capitalist, so a socialist. If you want a manifesto to tell your children, it's already written by Marx and Engels.

[BD_Guard_Bane]

I am not a sociologist nor a philosopher. I am just a 21 year old anti-capitalist economy student. My profs everyday teach me capitalism. I am not planing a revolution also. I just think, and share my ideas in this small community.
Capitalism has 1 rival: Communism. I am an anti capitalist, so a socialist. If you want a manifesto to tell your children, it's already written by Marx and Engels.

So you could have just linked the Communist Manifesto?

Sure, it's fine to be a socialist. But preaching it in a polemical and rhetorical form is just annoying.

[Chagan_Arslan]

Ah, so it's the sharing ideas kind of revolution. Not the dramatic statement kind.

In which case, can we see something tangible, rather than a set of nebulous unsubstantiated statements with undefined terminology? In short, I want less rhetoric, and more of a proper Manifesto of Sultan Eren, so I can decide whether your ideas are worth teaching to my children.

Information is key to everything, without it you will make blind choices, so yeah sharing ideas and showing people things they might never thought about is kind of revolutionary. Of course you can do something big like the "Yes man" did to DOW company, or like Argentinian factory workers did when they were faced with moving their factories to other places because they wanted a raise.

Information wins elections, if you didnt hear about a guy you wont vote for him, its common practice to use media to highlight people they want to win and dismiss/dont show people they dont want to.

Information shapes your desires, "you dont need this, but you will feel better when you have this" is slogan used by all companies today, making you buy things you dont need. Also have you noticed poor quality of products in today's world ? What happened with products that would last for ages ? Its companies politic to make stuff that brakes easily, so the mass production machine wont have to slow down or stop.. cant speak for others but i would love to buy a product that could last for a life time, but you aint gonna get them today.

Information shapes your political views, basically you become who you are based on things you are told and learn, if you dont get information to confront your current believes you wont change them by yourself. Also people are most open to different ideas when they are young, the older you get the less chance to change your believes. So in conclusion we could say the one who control the education system decides what type of society you will get.

so guard bane if you want some concretes, the first step would be
- getting influence in education system, become a teacher (to get more people willing to create new system)

and than this
- creating a decentralised system, having the political party to gain majority and make it happen, propably the hardest of the three(to lessen corruption, and money loss)
- removing global corporations, dont buy their products support small firms (to long to describe whats wrong with them ;] )


and couple of links you all might find interesting :

how stores could look whitout coca cola
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et8UFSNPPmU

man that single handed changed the world Edward L. Barneys, the man that made women smoke cigarettes, the man that made egg and bacon popular breakfast, the man that made corporations make shitty products (or was it Lehmnan brothers dont remember), oh and he also made everyone to thing that freemarkets can only work in democracy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcYBSXgtmKQ

stuff i mentioned about argentinian factories earlier (holy shit wikipedia!! lies)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_self-management


i hope some will find it interesting, and as english isnt my first language i propably made some mistakes but i hope its understantable enough to get the idea for you what i wanted to say

[Opium.dk]

Basically, what capitalism is about; one guy wins, one guy loses. You can't all be winners.

More like; One guys wins, 10 guys lose.

Its alot harder to become succesfull if you're born poor than rich, so in some ways you are forced into your role.


I got a story that this thread might like.

An American tourist was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked.

Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The tourist complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, "Only a little while."

The tourist then asked, "Why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish?"

The Mexican said, "With this I have more than enough to support my family's needs."

The tourist then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life."

The tourist scoffed, " I can help you. You should spend more time fishing; and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat: With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor; eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You could leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles and eventually New York where you could run your ever-expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all take?"

The tourist replied, "15 to 20 years."

"But what then?" asked the Mexican.

The tourist laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions."

"Millions?...Then what?"

The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

[Laufknoten]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0&annotation_id=annotation_439636&feature=iv

Holy fuck, almost 100.000.000 views. 

[Alex_C]

pff, all these people saying they're not radicals, revolutionaries or terrorists. Damn cowards I say.

[Cyclopsided]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szNLMtgI7hU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSgcw5tLenI
I love capitalism, why else Would I live in AMERICA WOOO

[Huey Newton]

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[Kalam]

Equal opportunity does NOT exist in this country.
People of certain race/status (for lack of better words) are at a distinct disadvantage.
I'm not persecuting those who had easy upbringings merely shedding light on the fact that the liberty and justice countlessly pledged in many of our schools is smoke and mirrors.

Lawd almighty don't even get me started on our educational system

Reguardless. My take. Bounce ideas back.

I'd disagree. There's more equal opportunity here than most other countries I've been to. I'm not saying it's perfect, just that it's enough. The issue with the girl is that she...didn't have to bang some guy and get pregnant. That was a choice. One whose consequences are covered remarkably well by society in this state, and I assume it's the same in California, though I could be wrong.

Over here, as long as you did reasonably well in high school, you can pretty much get enough financial aid to cover a bachelor's degree. If you chose to work full time while getting your education, you'd get started on saving to pay off your student loans later. If you're latino, you'd get access to more, and there are several other financial avenues for every race and cultural niche, if you look for it hard enough.

Your upbringing is only as easy as you make it out to be.

I grew up elsewhere, as you know, and comparatively speaking, this is the land of opportunity.

There's so goddamn much of it.