archery..

[Pappus]

You guys need to put the classes into perspective.

What is the advantage of a thrower over a crossbowman or archer? That he can still melee as a hybrid? Archery/Crossbowing does very comparable damage (easily more), over greater distance, at smaller risk, at higher accuracy with more ammunition.

By introducing one of the two nerfs I suggested for you, we would also alleviate the position of throwers, who badly need it.

You have no realistic counters other then other archers, especially in the bigger battles.

What is so bad about idea 2 for you? Can't turn around and oneshot a courser anymore? Is that bad for you? Of course it is, you can still dodge him though.

With idea 1 you can still oneshot the horse, but not outrun the rider so easily anymore. You are trying to justify a position, where your opponent is helpless against you.

This is never the correct approach. If a 2h makes it near you, then you deserve to die just as I deserve to die when I charge a spearguy straight on a horse.

Archers should not be able to 1on1 melees in close range with their bow (indication for that is what happens when a melee guy touches you while you aim), nor should they be able to defend themself against cavalry that is very close to striking range.

By denieing this you actually suggest to delete all other items then bows.

You still have the ability to kite a 2h guy even with idea 2, you just need to start running and shooting earlier.

[Cup1d]

Pappus, if you wanna whine a little about throwing - make your own «pool of throwers sorrow» thread.
This is the place where dedicated twohanders crying about archery, so do not pollute their pure rivers ot tears with your dirty throwers insinuations. Do not spoil our fun.

[MrShine]

Pappus do people really need to explain to you why a suggestion to reduce running speed by 50% and close range damage by 80% is retarded?

[Pappus]

It is not retarded. The archer mechanics are inherently flawed by design and there is a reason why in hundreds of games archers are prone to be weak against melee classes or cavalry among all genres.

You can even go into MOBA games and find those fundamental balancing measurements.

You are also paying a price for your close quarter shotguns on your true ranged ability. How can you justify reasonable long range damage, when you deal then even greater damage when someone manages to gap the distance?

I would like to see their true range damage increase if counters are availible, but in their current state they are annoying as hell and frustrating.

You can go through all 'classes' and find a real counter to them.

Shielder -> Axe
2h-> range/shielder(this includes throwers somewhat)
cav-> Archer,spears
Archers-> ???

The fast ninja, that will need half the round to chase you down?
The warhorse, which you can dodge reasonably due to his low speed?
The 2h guy, that you will simply kite?
The shielder, that you will most likely outrun other then builds like Leokings, who leaves his feet unprotected?
The lightcav that you can dishorse with one well placed arrow or two even if he goes sideways?

The funny stuff is, that those that can catch you on foot have likely less HP then you do.

Tell me what really beats you, if you are so weak.

There is no justifying logic to give you more dmg on easier shots due to lower range.

We aren't talking about stuff like getting on a mountain even fueling those advantages. They are all true on plain terrain.

[Paul]

Did you play an archer recently? Sometimes I really wish we could force players to actually play the classes they bullshit about until they choke on it.

[_Tak_]

HA 's damage is far too low compare to normal archers on foot. With 5 PD as a HA its really useless and you have to shoot 8 arrows in to people to kill 1 person (Without bumping, with fully loomed Tatar arrows and horn bow, tested it myself and then respec into Mesut_Ozil because of that)

[Siberian_Wolf]

It is not retarded. The archer mechanics are inherently flawed by design and there is a reason why in hundreds of games archers are prone to be weak against melee classes or cavalry among all genres.

You can even go into MOBA games and find those fundamental balancing measurements.

You are also paying a price for your close quarter shotguns on your true ranged ability. How can you justify reasonable long range damage, when you deal then even greater damage when someone manages to gap the distance?

I would like to see their true range damage increase if counters are availible, but in their current state they are annoying as hell and frustrating.

You can go through all 'classes' and find a real counter to them.

Shielder -> Axe
2h-> range/shielder(this includes throwers somewhat)
cav-> Archer,spears
Archers-> ???

The fast ninja, that will need half the round to chase you down?
The warhorse, which you can dodge reasonably due to his low speed?
The 2h guy, that you will simply kite?
The shielder, that you will most likely outrun other then builds like Leokings, who leaves his feet unprotected?
The lightcav that you can dishorse with one well placed arrow or two even if he goes sideways?

The funny stuff is, that those that can catch you on foot have likely less HP then you do.

Tell me what really beats you, if you are so weak.

There is no justifying logic to give you more dmg on easier shots due to lower range.

We aren't talking about stuff like getting on a mountain even fueling those advantages. They are all true on plain terrain.

You're obviously wrong here, but instead of me bashing you let me tell you this.

YOU DONT HAVE TO CHASE THEM.

This is Mostly for shieldets, back peddle to shelter And wait for flag... then camp flag.
This is how I beat rohypnol, this is how melee beat ne on my archer alt.

on another note. If your going to suggest to nerf archers 50% speed and 80% close range damage then I say nerf melee 50% swing speed and 80% damage when facehugging.

Also, I stull suggest a 400% buff on melee intelligence.

[Gurnisson]

Archers-> ??? Shield + throwing hybrid

FTFY

[Cup1d]

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I think you must play this mode for a while, and then spend your precious time for less stupid uncommon ideas

BTW, thanks to chadz there are no «Classes» in this mode. There are weapons and builds. If you wanna play game with «classes» you choose wrong game.

[Pappus]

FTFY

Not true by a long shot. Throwing is too inaccurate for that and even if you hit, you need to do it a couple of times like 3 sometimes even 4 jarids/throwing axes with PT 7 and 120 WPF. Are not unheard of specially without the speedbonus or maybe even a negative one, since you will standing still prior to the impact it swiftly goes up to 4, if you get 2 good hits in movement, then that would kill them, but you have to drop a good amount of ammunition and the maximum ammunition you have would be 6 or 8 depending if you go with a seperate 1h or not.

How good throwing is working we can see when we take a glimpse at the throwing thread or the insane amount of throwers per game. 2 out of 60?

Edit: This mod =/= this game and this forum registration date =/= time playing this mod. Btw this game has classes. It doesnt matter if you call it build they all fit well into archetypes.

[Cup1d]

ok. Please name me this «Class»

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 18
Hit points: 52
Attributes to skills: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 100
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 100
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 105

[rufio]

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[Pappus]

ok. Please name me this «Class»

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 18
Hit points: 52
Attributes to skills: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 100
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 100
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 105

Despite that it is beside the point: Gladiator

[Arrowblood]

ok. Please name me this «Class»

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 18
Hit points: 52
Attributes to skills: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 100
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 100
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 105

(click to show/hide)

Its a

(click to show/hide)

horsethrow1handlancer

(click to show/hide)

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[Arrowblood]

we have no gladiators in crpg