Remove Throwing Lances

[MountedRhader]

I'm a dedicated str thrower right now, and I don't even use the things, though I bought them to try out. Bottom line is, they are balanced by extreme cost, horrible (I mean really horrible) accuracy, and ammo.

Often, you don't even hit something right in front of you.

I played STR thrower once after patch. I ended up with vast superior kill count over death. Usually having 10+ kills in a round and 3- deaths. Lances and axes are insanely powerful. Jarids and the like are good but the others are epic weapons. Btw I made money with x2 in medium armor with lances. Alot of money, so don't go whining about lance cost as it is too cheap I think. Taking out a horse in one hit is also not really a realistic idea.. Then again, we're talking about throwing lances....

[Heroin]

Btw I made money with x1 in medium armor with lances. Alot of money

Unless you only used 1 or 2 stacks of lances, you are mistaken, the luckiest guy alive, or are a liar.

With 1x, you can use around 25k in equipment without losing money in the long run(the long run being constant x1). The math does not lie. With higher multipliers, the amount of equipment you can maintain increases linearly with your multiplier. So at 2x, you can maintain 50k, 3x - 75k, 4x - 100k, 5x - 125k. (These are approximate numbers off the top of my head. The exact #'s can be found if you look around the forums.)

Since 2 stacks of lances + "medium" armor are more than 25k alone, over the long run, anyone using that setup will lose money if they only have 1x the entire time. Of course, no one ever has 1x forever, or they'd probably quit playing crpg out of frustration. Even having an average of 2x DOUBLES the amount of equipment you can maintain. So if you're going to talk about something being OP because it's affordable, at least do so using VALID arguments that don't defy the universal laws of mathematics.

[MountedRhader]

Unless you only used 1 or 2 stacks of lances, you are mistaken, the luckiest guy alive, or are a liar.

With 1x, you can use around 25k in equipment without losing money in the long run(the long run being constant x1). The math does not lie. With higher multipliers, the amount of equipment you can maintain increases linearly with your multiplier. So at 2x, you can maintain 50k, 3x - 75k, 4x - 100k, 5x - 125k. (These are approximate numbers off the top of my head. The exact #'s can be found if you look around the forums.)

Since 2 stacks of lances + "medium" armor are more than 25k alone, over the long run, anyone using that setup will lose money if they only have 1x the entire time. Of course, no one ever has 1x forever, or they'd probably quit playing crpg out of frustration. Even having an average of 2x DOUBLES the amount of equipment you can maintain. So if you're going to talk about something being OP because it's affordable, at least do so using VALID arguments that don't defy the universal laws of mathematics.

Haha. Funny you care so much about the framework of a game. I used 2 stacks of lances yes, but you do not understand that medium armor is the biggest equipment class I believe.. therefor leaving many items to mention. Do not insinuate that I am a liar - I was making a point. People like You need to grow up. Throwing lances are not just OP., but also inexpensive for the one-shot of horses (usually) and players alike. I think the real problem of cRPG throwing infestation is Heavy throwing axes, or the entire axe family. I could one-shot horses and pretty much all players except tin cans with heavy axes by level 20 something.. That would be 3 stacks of axes and a shield which is 12 axes. 12 Instant kills if you aim right. Think of that, that's a sizable portion of a low pop. server like Fallen at times. If one person has that sort of killing power then what would four people like that be like? Eight? Twelve? You see my point of course. Sub classes will disappear and throwing will take over cRPG if we let it. Looks like it has a good start on us.. Do not think I wanted this, as I will never go back to throwing. I'm most likely going archer next retirement to try and help revive archery as a somewhat playable class.

[Khalim]

I dont think that throwing lances are a problem. Sure, they can onehit, but they have BIG downsides.
The fact that I nearly never get killed by throwing lances shows me, that they do not occur often(because players dont want as of the downsides) or they are easily avoided(shield and low accuracy)


I think Crushtrough combined with knockdown is much more OP.

[Seawied]

Haha. Funny you care so much about the framework of a game. I used 2 stacks of lances yes, but you do not understand that medium armor is the biggest equipment class I believe.. therefor leaving many items to mention. Do not insinuate that I am a liar - I was making a point. People like You need to grow up. Throwing lances are not just OP., but also inexpensive for the one-shot of horses (usually) and players alike. I think the real problem of cRPG throwing infestation is Heavy throwing axes, or the entire axe family. I could one-shot horses and pretty much all players except tin cans with heavy axes by level 20 something.. That would be 3 stacks of axes and a shield which is 12 axes. 12 Instant kills if you aim right. Think of that, that's a sizable portion of a low pop. server like Fallen at times. If one person has that sort of killing power then what would four people like that be like? Eight? Twelve? You see my point of course. Sub classes will disappear and throwing will take over cRPG if we let it. Looks like it has a good start on us.. Do not think I wanted this, as I will never go back to throwing. I'm most likely going archer next retirement to try and help revive archery as a somewhat playable class.

 

I love how Heroin writes a well thought-out post and you tell him to grow up along with some fallacies and the lovely slipperly slope argument.

Here's some balance for you
If you carry 2 stacks of throwing lances like you say you did, that leaves you with less than 5,000 gold for all forms of armor, a shield, or a side weapon. This means the best armor you can wear at x1 and either gain or remain neutral on money is a mail shirt.... but you would have NOTHING else.

this means you have 4 lances to work with. You better hope you can 1-shot someone with one, because on a good day, I'm happy if I hit with 1 out of 4 lances... and god help you if they have a shield.


So say you kill your opponent. Congrats. You are all out of ammo, have no melee weapon, no way of blocking and have crappy armor. In otherwords, you are about as useful as a peasant at that point.

Also, on my dedicated thrower, I laugh at the notion of 1 shotting everyone but tin-cans with axes at level 20. My thrower is level 24 I believe. All but 2 skill points have been either converted into strength or put into power throw. It usually takes me 2 axes to kill someone in medium armor if they are close and running towards me.

Sub-classes will not disappear, and throwing is not nearly as overpowered as you say it is. The only problem with throwing is that it is too accessible for hybrids.

[Torp]

i dont think throwing lances should be removed, but i think the time it takes to throw one (from pressing lmb to you release it) should be increased.
You shouldnt be able to spam throwing that fast and still be accurate and throw it with that amount of force

[John]

remove throwing lances +1

as for inaccurate i watched throwy hit people with a throwing lance at range, only throwing one n hitting each time

I knew I'd manage to get into this thread after that round.  That was the best luck I'd ever had on that character.  Made me feel like Zeus by the end of that map. 

[Spawny]

i dont think throwing lances should be removed, but i think the time it takes to throw one (from pressing lmb to you release it) should be increased.
You shouldnt be able to spam throwing that fast and still be accurate and throw it with that amount of force

Don't know if you've noticed, but the throwing lances are allready incredibly slow to draw.
So slow, archers can fire a lot faster than I can throw another lance.

As long as it's still pretty special to see a thrower at the topscore list with a very good kd ratio I'd say it's fine as it is. Throwing has it's upsides and downsides and the only thing that can potentially make throwing OP is the ability to use a shield with throwing weapons without some sort of penalty.
Throwers without a shield are in no way more powerfull than a guy with 15 strength, 24 agility and a greatsword/large weapon dealing loads of damage.

[Tigerclaw]

As long as it's still pretty special to see a thrower at the topscore list with a very good kd ratio I'd say it's fine as it is.

This. I regularly play with around four guys who use throwing lances, and I've seen one of them top the scoreboard...maybe once? They're definitely not overpowered, given how easy they are to sidestep. Leave well-enough alone.

[Torp]

Don't know if you've noticed, but the throwing lances are allready incredibly slow to draw.
So slow, archers can fire a lot faster than I can throw another lance.

i know, but i still think lances should be slower.
i'd say an arcehr with a mid tier bow should be able to shoot 2 arrows everytime a thrower throws 1 lance - and thats for dedicated archer+thrower, throwing as sidearm should be slower

[Siiem]

i know, but i still think lances should be slower.
i'd say an arcehr with a mid tier bow should be able to shoot 2 arrows everytime a thrower throws 1 lance - and thats for dedicated archer+thrower, throwing as sidearm should be slower

Actually throwing should be faster then archery.

[Torp]

Actually throwing should be faster then archery.

depends on what you throw; ofc you should be able to throw daggers fast as hell, but you cant throw a big ass lance both that accurate, that fast, and with taht amount of force

edit: i also think archery should be a little slower

[Mustang_Sweets]

I still say the solution to all this throwing is instead of nerfing damage, add the whiffing factor,the whiff factor starts at double the weapon's length or the weapon's plus half the length of character's arm. This would solve the thing most people bitch about and that is dying to that point blank shot that throwers do, and allow throwers to keep their damage when using the weapon the way it should be and that is at range...Also it adds a bit of realism for the fact.

[Spawny]

I still say the solution to all this throwing is instead of nerfing damage, add the whiffing factor,the whiff factor starts at double the weapon's length or the weapon's plus half the length of character's arm. This would solve the thing most people bitch about and that is dying to that point blank shot that throwers do, and allow throwers to keep their damage when using the weapon the way it should be and that is at range...Also it adds a bit of realism for the fact.

Up to a certain point yes. For the lances which are pretty long it's correct, but with a throwing axe, you could technically just smack it right into someone's face if he's close enough. It's so short it doesn't really whiff and you don't even have to throw it.
Best solution for most people (and there are only very few who do) is to keep zigzagging until you're close and do a sideswing WHILE ZIGZAGGING. Most people keep dodging until they get to about 2m and run the last part in a straigth line. That's when I hit them in the chest, most of the time killing them.
If they don't die, I die. Usually due to me missing (huzzah for throwing randomness), my throwing weapon passing through them as if they didn't even exist or they just had too much armour/hp.

[Mustang_Sweets]

Up to a certain point yes. For the lances which are pretty long it's correct, but with a throwing axe, you could technically just smack it right into someone's face if he's close enough. It's so short it doesn't really whiff and you don't even have to throw it.
Best solution for most people (and there are only very few who do) is to keep zigzagging until you're close and do a sideswing WHILE ZIGZAGGING. Most people keep dodging until they get to about 2m and run the last part in a straigth line. That's when I hit them in the chest, most of the time killing them.
If they don't die, I die. Usually due to me missing (huzzah for throwing randomness), my throwing weapon passing through them as if they didn't even exist or they just had too much armour/hp.

Point blank for the axe yes i agree maybe but also in my thoughts the axe would end up hitting the wrong rotation and simply bonk you with the handle, then again the game is on the premise that everyone is trained in the use of each weapon, so therefore i would say for all the javelin type weapons add a whiff factor of that distance and for the axe i'd say for double it's weapon length for the whiff cause that pretty much is your melee range and should have switched to melee weapon long before that.

Atleast we agree on something. Plus, 2-4m is the effective range of a throwing axe, so now i have no idea how to be fair to the javs and give axes a nerf. The only time i have a prob with throwing axes is when their are multiple throwers aiming at me.