The State of Archery in cRPG - all fear the machine gun bows

[Tennenoth]

I quite like this patch, it's finally nerfed crossbows which means that they're no longer my worst enemy, but at the same time, it's buffed my new worst enemy, cavalry, to such a factor that they're even worse than xbows were previously! 

EDIT: @MrShine - I thought you did. 

[Tonyukuk]

@sebastian..you can go 30+ agi build like other..you can kill the ppl extra 1-2 shoot.. after the patch; damage is no problem..

,it's buffed my new worst enemy

Problem is that..The other things.agi characters is  more funny..

[MrShine]

@sebastian..you can go 30+ agi build like other..you can kill the ppl extra 1-2 shoot.. after the patch; damage is no problem..

Problem is that..The other things.agi characters is  more funny..

Something might have been lost in translation, but if you're saying going a low PD high WM build has no problem with damage, then may I refer you to videos from my OP?


Anyways, I still have a bunch of video to post from rounds I've played (takes forever and I'm at work so it's been trickling in) but there have been some more successful rounds where I am able to get some more headshots, and last awhile.  Even so, my "very good" scores as archer don't even compare to my "very good" scores as 1h/shield or 2H right now.  They were always lower than my melee ones even before the nerf, but it's markedly lower.

In past gens as archer I've been able to retire with a ~1.5:1 - 1.8:1 KDR. 
Currently my STF char (who doesn't have to deal with all of that leveling bidness) is an even 1:1 KDR.  Especially when you consider the majority of my kills are nakeds and peasants, that's a pretty substantial change.

[Snoozer]

Now that archers, my old hate class, are nerfed to an acceptable level, I think cavalry will become my new hate class, because I think that being cavalry needs even less skill than being an archer. Horse archers will always be my hate class Nr. 1, and after one 1hd-cav and 1 HA won a round against 9 infantrymen (me included, I died first to mtemko's sniper-shots), simply because they chose the right class, not because of skill (because no skill can help 2 players being gangbanged in the open by 9 infantrymen with different weapons), I wouldn't whine a single tear if the horse archery skill would be removed from the game and all ranged weapons made unusable from horseback. Yes, it would be a pity to have a class less, but I think it's still better than keeping the only class in the game that is entirely immune to certain other classes, and in addition can kill some without them having a single chance to survive or defend themselves.

Yes, it was this on the ruins map where you asked what's wrong. This was wrong. We won the round, but there had to be a horse archer against 9 infantrymen, who didn't stop picking arrows from the ground. Which makes him de facto immortal, because he can pick up arrows again and again, unless he shoots them into something where he can't recover them. Which are shields (which break after a certain time) or players. Nice autowin, all it needs is time...

what? this is the problem right here for EVERYONE the QQ about one class to the point of it being nerfed and once it is they complain about the next class

do people not think of what the consequences are if a class is nerfed? its  a delicate ecosystem of checks and balances and once you knock one down to size another will take its place. archers should not have been this nerfed no joke i have probably been killed only about 15 times my gen by an archer(i do admit though they set me up for death many times as well) people should have simply adapted to them like getting a shield for example

now the next thing is cav and the only reason they are doing so well is the fact that they have less threats and less adapted players(varies on rounds)

do not nerf shit i swear people die to build because they do not try to counter them i never had a problem with with a build that i could not see what i did wrong

except for long spears and the old lul stab....im sorry i just cant our reach a long spear unless i become one or become an archer

there are times where stuff needs to be buffed and nerfed but most of the  time the problem is over exagerated

[Joker86]

I didn't write you sould nerf cavalry, and in fact I wouldn't nerf them at all, at least directly. I am for buffing ranged a bit again, buffing spears/pikes and implementing those stakes.

And just on a note: I HATE it if people suggest to use different items to deal with a class. Because this argument can be used in virtually every scenario. Let's assume archers would have almost closed reticles, shoot with higher accuracy and do more damage, in short: they would be heavily overpowered. The argument "get a shield" can't apply, because if everyone followed that suggestion, we would have only archers and shielder on the server.

If people decide to go without shield, sure they need to suffer certain penalties, but these penalties have to be of corresponding extense to the advantages this grants. Which would be higher weapon reach and damage. Let's say 25-50% higher chance to die from missile will NOT make up for about 10-20 points more weapon reach and 10 points more damage, rendering the class sub-par.

Same applies for cavalry. The old but very popular (among cav players) argument was "get a pike". But pikes are unsheathable 3 slot weapons now, making them primary weapons only. Which leads to the conclusion that the people are suggesting there should only be pikemen and cavalry, and if you don't want to be pikeman it's your own fault if you suffer from the omnipresent cavalry.

Another case was "Ladders help against roofcampers"... which was the same shitty suggestion, but in addition it was also a very ineffective one.

So please, never ever suggest to counter certain game imbalance with equipping certain items. Don't tell the people which class they have to play.

I would really like if we could agree in this forum to never ever accept "use a [xyz]" as suggestion to deal with a class. It's like saying: "Archers have problems against shielders? Play a 2handed axeman then" 

[Mtemtko]

Its not like somebody is forcing you to use an item to counter something your class isnt meant to deal with(or barely be able to), use it or dont and suffer for your choice, its as simple as that.

[Joker86]

Its not like somebody is forcing you to use an item to counter something your class isnt meant to deal with(or is weak to), use it or dont and suffer for your choice, its as simple as that.

It's never white or black, it's a question of the right balance. If not bringing a shield is de facto deadly and will get you killed you can't say it's your own fault by not having brought a shield.

[Darkwulf]

I like more realistic damage.  It seems like CRPG is all about taking multiple hits these days.  1 or 2 hits from anything and you should die.  Make this happen and the game will be fine.

Over a year ago when I started playing, it was more or less a couple hits would kill anyone who was not wearing plate.  I like that better.

[Butan]

1 or 2 hits from anything and you should die.

I'm of the same opinion... WHEN we talk about melee.


Ranged is by far the class with the BIGGEST number of opportunities to hit someone; if you give them a 1/2 shot bows the game will become too hard for melee.

Or then you decrease accuracy to avoid being hit too easily... Problem is, it was the case some months ago and it wasnt very fun being an archer then and it got changed.



The patch needs to be tweaked a bit but its on the right way and new ones will certainly appears and changes things a notch or two.

[bagge]

I quite like this patch, it's finally nerfed crossbows which means that they're no longer my worst enemy, but at the same time, it's buffed my new worst enemy, cavalry, to such a factor that they're even worse than xbows were previously! 

Indeed. Cavalry are just to crazy, and it's because of cav I simply cba to play crpg for the moment.

Let's Football Manager 12 instead, oh the joy.

[Adamar]

Ranged is by far the class with the BIGGEST number of opportunities to hit someone; if you give them a 1/2 shot bows the game will become too hard for melee.

Unless the enemy dodges or we run out of arrows.

[XyNox]

I pretty much changed to vindictus till the game is fixd

Is there any release date for a patch so far ?

[DrTaco]

Whot bout Throwing mate!?

[Snoozer]

my last build was a 1h that had points in shield yet i never used it(unless i was rusty)

i only had it on my back just in case the need arises what was it i said?oh ya shields are for scrubs lol(aka id only use them for scrubs)

and i took cav out quite easy i was skilled in the jump stab and knocked their punk asses off there horses

to me its simple just stick 3-4 points and shield and only use it for scrubs

im just saying there are ways to deal with the other classes no matter what class you are

jump stab for horses and footwork for archers are examples of "dealing" with other classes

do they always work?depends on how good you are,how good they are and luck but most of the time i got it done

[MrShine]

Whot bout Throwing mate!?

I've never really played a thrower so I can't say... but I can only imagine how much it sucks right now. 

Anyways, one more vid up that I added to OP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98qKu-_9YM0&feature=plcp&context=C31e32f0UDOEgsToPDskKt0Fu0g_obCDFz5qMd8_5m)

I still have a bunch and will add them slowly if people are interested... I think it helps to see an archer "in action".  But I'm not loading another one cause I want to play!  (on my main that is..)