The State of Archery in cRPG - all fear the machine gun bows

[MrShine]

I don't think I need to say too much - the videos are pretty self explanatory.

Because people were terrified of headshot archers and the horror of fast shooty accurate 1 slot headshot machines I decided to make a 12/27 STF alt.

Using a Tatar bow + regular arrows I have 4 PD and 9 WM, or 180 wpf into archery.  I am about as fast and accurate as you're going to see in game, using a slightly faster bow than the dreaded Horn Bow.  Nearly all archers you will see will have slower draw speed and a much less accurate reticule than this.  Sure they'll be able to get headshots, but not NEARLY as consistently as I can in this video... not to mention targets are at close range and standing still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH-Gl25cXJg&context=C3f8ecbaADOEgsToPDskLjV8pT_CcthAVBWi4xiXFU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZK_6-O3_N0&context=C3a21564ADOEgsToPDskLnJz1VVmZVoZb6YY0lr1l9   (fun fact: first headshot test took 6 arrows - 2 glanced.  Sadly I'm dumb and didn't have recording on)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T92peeQxUA&context=C3eaad32ADOEgsToPDskKI6n0ycx9oP3lCeSJ_iH4v

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGW5534_ZWU&context=C30af511ADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl

and my personal favorite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYLq6y70d9U&context=C35e7f83ADOEgsToPDskKt0Fu0g_obCDFz5qMd8_5m

(sorry for the Teamspeak chatter - should have left the channel)


So uh... archery's fine?


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EDIT: Below are some live battle rounds with The_Cheese, your neighborhood friendly archer who demonstrates how OP and ezmode archery is with its laser-guided accuracy and headshotting abilities.  Or something like that.  I'm still uploading videos, I have like 15 in all.

(click to show/hide)

I'm not the world's best archer, but I've played quite a few gens of it and I would venture to say I'm more accurate and more "battle aware" than the average.  I have a few good rounds and a few more bad rounds.  I make mistakes, I miss shots I should have made.  But if I'm performing to this level assume the majority of archers who play right now are missing more shots and getting murdered worse than you see here.

I recommend watching them in high quality to get a better sense of where the arrows are travelling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eNBnNZqQCw&context=C3eaad32ADOEgsToPDskKI6n0ycx9oP3lCeSJ_iH4v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhMBzFupfS4&context=C3a21564ADOEgsToPDskLnJz1VVmZVoZb6YY0lr1l9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44klLksCxjc&context=C3eaad32ADOEgsToPDskKI6n0ycx9oP3lCeSJ_iH4v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTVoLu_rqfs&context=C3c04677ADOEgsToPDskLan4sSuNC3--tfv1zMAQl-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTVoLu_rqfs&context=C35e7f83ADOEgsToPDskKt0Fu0g_obCDFz5qMd8_5m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmzPUuCvrg0&context=C30af511ADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzKh_Spj7Hc&context=C3d71cebADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98qKu-_9YM0&feature=plcp&context=C31e32f0UDOEgsToPDskKt0Fu0g_obCDFz5qMd8_5m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M19wpe_0k1M&context=C30af511ADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3I7aCNj4Fo&context=C3239c27ADOEgsToPDskKt0Fu0g_obCDFz5qMd8_5m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTfYdhIBu4M&context=C3bd4c45ADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl


I also did some throwing tests, and throwing is probably in a worse state than archery right now.  Proof below:

(click to show/hide)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj8x8T2p-3Y&context=C30af511ADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl
Headshot test.  Doesn't say too much because I'm not sure if that first shot actually hit the head even though it looked like it did on my screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLkmzk9FvM&context=C3eaad32ADOEgsToPDskKI6n0ycx9oP3lCeSJ_iH4v
3(2) standing still shots.  The second axe probably hit me as I was moving (I'm dumb).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3IlWxh_rg0&context=C30af511ADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl
Me running at Chesty, getting hit near point blank.  3 hits to kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK5DxAgyeyw&context=C30af511ADOEgsToPDskIy3dH0RlFzIlYRfZ9vukUl
Ghazi offered his horse for the test; full speed +3 courser taking a point blank body shot that did 75% damage.

[Tears of Destiny]

Don't forget a better then ever excuse to kite melee. With forcing 12/27 or 15/24 builds, there is no reason not to stack athletics.

Lol.

[isatis]

WHY WHY!!

EVIL!!

don't tell archery secret to everyone like that!!

(my built at lvl 30
9/30
3pd
10 ath
10 wm

189 archery

fear my normal bow+ arrow!
I was thinking about going for a 6/33 next built:P)

[MrShine]

So uh... archery's fine?

I should mention that this statement is oozing with as much sarcasm as I can muster.

[Tears of Destiny]

The only thing the archery patch did was destroy most PD builds and ruin some post level 30 mains and devalue the PD6 bows. In the coming months, archery spam will increase with the machine gun bows, and the new over the top headshot bonus means that more people then usual will be one shotted (Am I the only guy who thinks that helmets should protect against range, and that one shotting anything above a naked peasent is a bad thing?).

[Osiris]

so let me get a 23 cut weapon like hmm Cleaver with 24 cut will do. and 4ps and let me count how many hits it takes to down a 2h with heavy armour?

if your going to do tests at least do it with real bloody arrows and a PD lvl that most archers have ie 5.

[isatis]

The only thing the archery patch did was destroy most PD builds and ruin some post level 30 mains and devalue the PD6 bows. In the coming months, archery spam will increase with the machine gun bows, and the new over the top headshot bonus means that more people then usual will be one shotted (Am I the only guy who thinks that helmets should protect against range, and that one shotting anything above a naked peasent is a bad thing?).

tears... tsk tsk... I saw some people resist my arrow from my toy bow awesome boy and my excellent 3 pd... in fact i found this a bit OP...

face it: if a pebble hurt your head at full speed, you'll die even with monstruous amount of steel geared.

realism tears, realism!

(click to show/hide)

not at all sarcasm

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maybe

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or maybe be not

[MrShine]

so let me get a 23 cut weapon like hmm Cleaver with 24 cut will do. and 4ps and let me count how many hits it takes to down a 2h with heavy armour?

if your going to do tests at least do it with real bloody arrows and a PD lvl that most archers have ie 5.

1. You need headshots to do any semblance of damage now... why would I limit that with a small quiver?  No, it's all about getting as many arrows as possible to have as many chances to get headshots as possible.  Regular arrows are a perfectly rational choice. 

2. You're really going to try to refute the videos because I have 1 less PD than you'd prefer?  Really?  You think that's going to be the big difference?  The higher the PD the slower the draw speed, and the larger the aiming reticule.  Even now my reticule is just barely small enough to be consistently accurate at head range at short range... other bows, higher PD will all mean it takes more luck to get a headshot.

3. Your 'cleaver' example isn't exactly accurate, PD improves ranged more than PS improves melee.  Maybe try a falchion instead.  In either case post a video of that and let's find out.  I'm betting it will take you far fewer shots than my archer vid.

[Gristle]

This is balanced because you still cause staggers (most of the time). This allows the real heroes of the battlefield to win. Didn't anyone tell you? Archers are support characters. They're more like cheerleaders, while the melee classes are the real athletes. What, you actually want to do damage? You're using the wrong weapon then.

Damage to horses will probably be reverted at least. Cavalry are supposed to be support too, so it's OK to hurt them.

[justme]

well, with my 29 str and 9 if head armor 60, im lucky if i survive HS...

[MrShine]

well, with my 29 str and 9 if head armor 60, im lucky if i survive HS...

Come onto NA duel sometime, let's see how many head shots you survive against my STF archer... maybe fraps yourself in battle and point out the times where you've taken a 100% damage headshot from an archer.

I'm sure it happens, but the archers that are able to score those 1-shot headshot kills aren't the ones that can effectively and consistently hit the head.  I have no doubt that a longbow or rus bow user with 7-8 PD will be able to 1-shot most people with a headshot, but even if they are aiming right at the head there is probably a 30-40% chance they can hit the head with the shot at the range in my video... not even considering the fact that targets are moving ALL the time.

Basically what I'm saying is, a build designed to hit the head effectively still doesn't do a whole bunch of damage, while builds that CAN kill with 1 shot lack the wpf to do it consistently.  Archers are between a rock and a hard place.

[Casimir]

Archers could do the sensible thing and stack str, meaning their body shots will actually do significant damage...

[Tears of Destiny]

Archers could do the sensible thing and stack str, meaning their body shots will actually do significant damage...

I have 8PD and am using MW Rus and +2 bods, do not recommend.

[isatis]

I have 8PD and am using MW Rus and +2 bods, do not recommend.

maybe with +3?

( )

[MrShine]

Archers could do the sensible thing and stack str, meaning their body shots will actually do significant damage...

Go for it, test it out.  I have 7 days until my next STF char.

But I already know the answer: huge wpf penalty = slow draw speeds and large reticle. Aiming for the head is out the window,it'll be a crapshoot aiming at anything further than short range.  And since your draw speed is god-awful and you won't be accurate at distance you'll get  maybe 2 chances at hitting your target before they are close enough to get into melee range... not enough to kill anyone but the lightest infantry (MAYBE AND assuming both your shots hit).

Wasn't the ranged change supposed to nerf luck and spamming and buff skill and precision aiming?  Well a strength heavy archer is certainly not going to be relying on skill for pinpoint shots, and I'm showing you in this video about as accurate and precise an archer can be right now without depending on luck... look how far that gets me.