polestagger

[Rumblood]

Yeah, the biggest issue with polestagger is definitely the teamwork aspect of it. Two guys with War Spears can literally juggle one enemy in a chain of staggers, and they have no choice but to hope help arrives and wait to die. It'd be cool if it could somehow be coded to not allow consecutive staggers on a target, that I think would be a good option if not removing it entirely.

Look, I really don't think we need to be concerned about balancing around what "Two guys can do to one enemy." Two anything against one anything has inherent advantages.

Coding against consecutive staggers? Why not code against consecutive horse bumps or xbow bolts? They stagger too.

[Rhaelys]

Look, I really don't think we need to be concerned about balancing around what "Two guys can do to one enemy." Two anything against one anything has inherent advantages.

Coding against consecutive staggers? Why not code against consecutive horse bumps or xbow bolts? They stagger too.

We should also get rid of horse bump knockdown and ranged staggers?

[B3RS3RK]

We should also get rid of horse bump knockdown and ranged staggers?

Why not, if Polestagger is also removed?

[Rhaelys]

Why not, if Polestagger is also removed?

Yep.

[Phew]

The problem isn't when you get a 0.8s stagger from a long maul, its when you get a 1s stagger from a war spear sideswing or similar. The slow polearms SHOULD have a long stagger, and the fast spears should only stagger on their thrust.

Just make the duration of the stagger scale with damage. You tone down the agi war spear spammers, while rightfully preserving the polearm support role.

[Malaclypse]

The problem isn't when you get a 0.8s stagger from a long maul, its when you get a 1s stagger from a war spear sideswing or similar. The slow polearms SHOULD have a long stagger, and the fast spears should only stagger on their thrust.

Just make the duration of the stagger scale with damage. You tone down the agi war spear spammers, while rightfully preserving the polearm support role.

Oh man, make the stagger scale with damage? Sounds good to my 27/15 build.

[Zerran]

Just make the duration of the stagger scale with damage. You tone down the agi war spear spammers, while rightfully preserving the polearm support role.

That would be wonderful. I can see it already, the 36 str MW awlpikers with their 5 second stuns. 

On a serious note, I liked the idea of just making it impossible to consecutively stagger someone. Getting staggered once is annoying, getting staggered repeatedly is just stupid.

[Phew]

I believe it's a 50% chance for a 0.8s stagger now (1.0s for hits to the head), with a 50% chance for 0.6s (I think 2h/1h hits are always 0.4s). This is just going from memory, Paul has presented the actual numbers before.

I'm not saying that the stagger duration should increase beyond these numbers for higher damage hits, just that you should have to hit HARD to get that 1.0s stagger. Right now you can do it with a 17blunt sideswing from a regular Spear with 2 Power Strike, and have a 50% chance to hit them again while the target is still staggering (provided you have enough WPF and turn into your swing). This is ridiculous.

I say make every weapon type be capable of producing staggers from 0.1s to 1.0s, depending on some combination of damage/weight/body location. 13PS Great Maul to the skull? 1.0s stagger. 0PS Practice Dagger to the toe? 0.1s stagger.

Rebalance 2H vs. polearm based on reach instead of stagger duration (right now, 2H thrust outranges most of the spears, which is dumb). 2H should be for swinging, pole for thrusting.

[Gravoth_iii]

Every weapon should get some kind of stagger, because it is just crazy when 1 person can run around 5 enemies without getting hit because they either hit eachother or they land a hit but he can keep running because nothing is stopping him. This is what i like about the stagger, i can support people and stop the enemies in their tracks making them unable to just run around doing so much damage alone against groups.

[WaltF4]

This is just going from memory, Paul has presented the actual numbers before.

On a normal hit(1h, 2h) strike and strike2 animations are called. They got a duration of about 0.5 to 0.6s depending on hit location. They are the same as in Native and can be checked with the Native MS in the animations.py. On a polearm hit there is a 50% chance that strike3 are called instead and they got a duration of 0.8 to 1s. The code says that polearms with the knockdown flag never call the strike3 animation.

Just tested it with Okin and confirmed it. Staffs (with kd flag) never trigger the long stagger, polearms without (like spears) do.

Every weapon should get some kind of stagger...

Every weapon causes staggers. Polestagger is a stagger animation that is about 70% longer in duration than staggers caused by other weapons.

[Gravoth_iii]

Every weapon causes staggers. Polestagger is a stagger animation that is about 70% longer in duration than staggers caused by other weapons.

What i mean is that every weapons should have a stagger that actually stops the enemy, polestagger locks them in place for a short time while 2h and 1h only stuns for a brief moment which doesnt really do a difference i can still keep running after getting hit... Im not saying they should all get a stagger that allows another attack to be landed like polestagger is right now, but atleast something that doesnt allow them to escape while being hit.

[Jarlek]

What i mean is that every weapons should have a stagger that actually stops the enemy, polestagger locks them in place for a short time while 2h and 1h only stuns for a brief moment which doesnt really do a difference i can still keep running after getting hit... Im not saying they should all get a stagger that allows another attack to be landed like polestagger is right now, but atleast something that doesnt allow them to escape while being hit.

I think I understand what you are asking for, and I kinda like it.

Whenever you are hit by a weapon, you get a long MOVEMENT penalty, but the "stagger" (how long until you can attack/block again), would be the same for all? That would actually be a pretty good thing to implement. Either you or me should make a thread about that in the suggestions corner.

[Gravoth_iii]

I think I understand what you are asking for, and I kinda like it.

Whenever you are hit by a weapon, you get a long MOVEMENT penalty, but the "stagger" (how long until you can attack/block again), would be the same for all? That would actually be a pretty good thing to implement. Either you or me should make a thread about that in the suggestions corner.

You could make one if you want, you seem to get the idea. Im not good at making threads anyways.

[Stjitalurv]

remove the stun, and make them more balanced... polestagger is the lamest thing i have experienced in crpg... can stun ppl for 4-5 times in a row... Theres nothing balanced about it so remove it next patch cuz this is making me loll, and that  not good ...

[Leshma]

SlickyRicky vs me:

He spam, I block, I try to attack, he stab me, *stunned*, he slash me, *stunned*, he stab, *stunned*, he slash, *stunned*, he killed me...

He's a very good and skilled player but he killed me mostly because of polestagger. He has a feeling for it, knows how long it lasts and can keep me stunlocked indefinitely (until I drop dead that is). One my mistake and I'm dead. He makes mistake and he's still alive because I need more than one hit to kill him.

I remember when Tor decided to fool around with warspear and AGI build, same thing, even worse actually. Once you get hit, you're dead.

Also, when I was gen 10 or so (six months ago) I've roleplayed grandma with a pitchfork. It was incredibly effective, thanks to polestagger. I was able to kill people wearing black armor easily, just because I could keep them stunlocked for a very long time. It took 12-15 hits, but who cares when they can't do shit about it. I kinda miss that build.