polestagger

[Christo]

Now, being a stupid  : newbie I have little to no understanding what pole stagger is, however I have found it amazingly infuriating to be unable to block the second hit after being struck by a polearm. Is this what we're all talking about?

Yes.

[Jarlek]

Now, being a stupid  : newbie I have little to no understanding what pole stagger is, however I have found it amazingly infuriating to be unable to block the second hit after being struck by a polearm. Is this what we're all talking about?

Yep.

Check the wiki for stuff btw. It's still not as good as I wanted but me and some others try to improve it whenever we can. Feel free to help out
http://wiki.c-rpg.net/index.php?title=Polearms#Polestagger

PS: Paul, if you would mind giving the numbers for the stagger, I'll add it to the wiki. Or you could add it directly yourself. Thanks!

[Toodles]

Yep.

Check the wiki for stuff btw. It's still not as good as I wanted but me and some others try to improve it whenever we can. Feel free to help out
http://wiki.c-rpg.net/index.php?title=Polearms#Polestagger

Alright thanks! In this case, what is the function meant to achieve from a gameplay perspective? I understand that it succeeds at raising the frustration of Toodles by 200%, but other than this - I don't see the purpose.

[Dezilagel]

Alright thanks! In this case, what is the function meant to achieve from a gameplay perspective? I understand that it succeeds at raising the frustration of Toodles by 200%, but other than this - I don't see the purpose.

It's a native mechanic designed for giving spearmen a chance vs. scimitars in sp afaik.

[Turkhammer]

Even without the stagger polearms are as good as 2hs

I disagree because I feel the 2h stab is so much greater.

[Jarlek]

Alright thanks! In this case, what is the function meant to achieve from a gameplay perspective? I understand that it succeeds at raising the frustration of Toodles by 200%, but other than this - I don't see the purpose.

Well. If you look at native you'll see that most of the polearms are spears and the like, weapons with a low-damage blunt swing attacks and a high-damage pierce stab. Two Handed weapons had both good swing damage and almost as good stabs. This was totally fine when you were playing against bots, but with the multiplayer the people who used spears were at a big disadvantage over all other weapon types because humans understood that a guy with a spear is gonna stab first. So other weapons had their main attacks on the three swings and sometimes a stab too, while spears had a good stab, but the 3 swings were not very good. So the stagger was introduced so that a guy with a spear could then use the swing attacks, stagger the enemy, and then get in the "real" attack which was the stab. Of course this doesn't apply to cRPG because of all the "dueling" polearms that have been added by modders. Polearms aren't any longer just spears and the like. The only "dueling" polearm that I remember from native would be the Glaive, Hafted Blade and the long axes (who could be used both as polearm AND 2h, so why use the polearm mode?). But in native, with spears needing something to make them viable, the polestagger was introduced. That was the reason to introduce the polestagger, as far as I know. Although don't listen to me. I'm twelve years old and what is this.

EDIT: As I was writing this post....

It's a native mechanic designed for giving spearmen a chance vs. scimitars in sp afaik.

Yeah, or that. I was too busy playing all the sweet mods for original Mount&Blade to focus on what they were gonna do in warband xD

YET ANOTHER POST!

I disagree because I feel the 2h stab is so much greater.

Don't listen to Blackmilk. He's the biggest 2h whiner I know. You should see the retarded comparisons he makes when he tries to argue 

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

If 5 = slight in your mind then I'm sure you won't mind a +3 increase of speed to all 1h. I mean if 5 is slight, 3 mustn't be jack shit.

They are already extremely powerful, very long and if your not a tit, very fast.

I remember watching a guy doing spining doom thrusts wipe out a horribly large volume of people on native, and in this come to think of it.

[Nehvar]

I disagree because I feel the 2h stab is so much greater.

I'm not jumping in to take sides...yet...but I wanted to comment on that quote.

I have both a 2h main and a polearm alt so I think my opinion is a little less biased than most when I say that I prefer the polearm stab most of the time.  While I love my 2h stab when it comes to dealing with cavalry the polearm stab is much more useful in non-cav situations.  It is quicker than the weapon's speed attribute would indicate and it is much easier to do damage at close range with.  Don't take my word for it though; make a 2h STF alt and try it out for yourself.  Range is really all it has.

If you still think the 2h stab is so much better I would gladly switch stab animations with you.  Two-hander swing animations with the polearm thrust animation?  Yes, please.

[TheAppleSauceMan]

Yes they are generally slower, but not by much. And with decent timing you could even outspam a lot of people, and at the very least go back and forth with hits, speed really isn't a problem, especially considering reach and damage. And the polestagger is amazing in fights, have you tried the bec? One hit and you're stunlocked till' death.

[Dezilagel]

I'm not jumping in to take sides...yet...but I wanted to comment on that quote.

I have both a 2h main and a polearm alt so I think my opinion is a little less biased than most when I say that I prefer the polearm stab most of the time.  While I love my 2h stab when it comes to dealing with cavalry the polearm stab is much more useful in non-cav situations.  It is quicker than the weapon's speed attribute would indicate and it is much easier to do damage at close range with.  Don't take my word for it though; make a 2h STF alt and try it out for yourself.  Range is really all it has.

If you still think the 2h stab is so much better I would gladly switch stab animations with you.  Two-hander swing animations with the polearm thrust animation?  Yes, please.

Use the shortened military scythe then.

There's a reason it's underpriced.

[Angantyr]

it is much easier to do damage at close range with.

Yes, this is a note-worthy benefit of the polearm stab animation that for some reason rarely is brought up.

[Leshma]

It's a native mechanic designed for giving spearmen a chance vs. scimitars in sp afaik.

Instead of failing once, they failed twice.

GG Taleworlds...

[WaltF4]

do you think polearms are op?

I dislike the current version of polestagger as well as other randomized parts of the game, such as the damage calculation and knockdown. Personal preferences are not relevant to an objective argument.

Also it will have longer reach although WaltF4's "tests" say otherwise...

The relative reach values were determined by Stabbing Hobo. I repeated the relative measurement for the two-handed weapon thrust with the two-handed polearm thrust as a reference. I posted a video showing a 117 length practice sword thrust out reaching a 182 length scythe thrust. That result is similar to Stabbing Hobo’s expected reach difference  of 61 + or - 6. I have not tested the other animations since I have not found a satisfactory method to determine simultaneously both the spacing between attacker and target and the orientation (azimuthal and polar) of the attacker’s facing for attacks other than thrusts.

If you are convinced Stabbing Hobo or I are incorrect: test it yourself, explain your methodology such that the experiment can be repeated by others, and present your results as we have.

[Arkonor]

I dislike the current version of polestagger as well as other randomized parts of the game, such as the damage calculation and knockdown. Personal preferences are not relevant to an objective argument.



The relative reach values were determined by Stabbing Hobo. I repeated the relative measurement for the two-handed weapon thrust with the two-handed polearm thrust as a reference. I posted a video showing a 117 length practice sword thrust out reaching a 182 length scythe thrust. That result is similar to Stabbing Hobo’s expected reach difference  of 61 + or - 6. I have not tested the other animations since I have not found a satisfactory method to determine simultaneously both the spacing between attacker and target and the orientation (azimuthal and polar) of the attacker’s facing for attacks other than thrusts.

If you are convinced Stabbing Hobo or I are incorrect: test it yourself, explain your methodology such that the experiment can be repeated by others, and present your results as we have.

I do concur in my tests that I showed here : http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,25029.0.html
I found that 2h polearms stabs had 70 less reach then 2h stabs.

117+70 = 187

[Snoozer]

oh my bad i used numpad i meant to hit 2 speed Q_Q 

i like the sound of that "off guard thing too" so itll be to where if there not attacking/almost blocking they would get stunnned?sounds good

Well. If you look at native you'll see that most of the polearms are spears and the like, weapons with a low-damage blunt swing attacks and a high-damage pierce stab. Two Handed weapons had both good swing damage and almost as good stabs. This was totally fine when you were playing against bots, but with the multiplayer the people who used spears were at a big disadvantage over all other weapon types because humans understood that a guy with a spear is gonna stab first. So other weapons had their main attacks on the three swings and sometimes a stab too, while spears had a good stab, but the 3 swings were not very good. So the stagger was introduced so that a guy with a spear could then use the swing attacks, stagger the enemy, and then get in the "real" attack which was the stab. Of course this doesn't apply to cRPG because of all the "dueling" polearms that have been added by modders. Polearms aren't any longer just spears and the like. The only "dueling" polearm that I remember from native would be the Glaive, Hafted Blade and the long axes (who could be used both as polearm AND 2h, so why use the polearm mode?). But in native, with spears needing something to make them viable, the polestagger was introduced. That was the reason to introduce the polestagger, as far as I know. Although don't listen to me. I'm twelve years old and what is this.

EDIT: As I was writing this post....Yeah, or that. I was too busy playing all the sweet mods for original Mount&Blade to focus on what they were gonna do in warband xD

YET ANOTHER POST!Don't listen to Blackmilk. He's the biggest 2h whiner I know. You should see the retarded comparisons he makes when he tries to argue 

lol this is funny these were the pole arms i always used
nords:great long axe
 rhodocs:glaive
veigers:bardiche
khanite:long hafted blade
saltinate:war spear(there melee weapons sucked so hard imo)