throwing is broken

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Because every time a throwing axe does 90 percent of my horse's HP with a body hit while I'm riding away from them or when full plate throwing lance players headshot me from 30 feet away or just throw axes/jarids for over half my HP each I think to myself "boy this class is underpowereD"

When throwing was at its most popular like 8 months ago this game was seriously the worst it ever was, it should never be viable for everyone to be a hybrid thrower outputting incredible damage with fine close/medium accuracy and easily replenishible ammo.  No ranged classes need buffs in the state of this mod, if anything they need nerfs.

With the throwing axe story I'd like to hear what horse you were using (and you sure as hell weren't riding away from them for this to happen.) I stand infront of my stillstanding steppe horse on the duel server, I throw two throwing lances into the front of it's body, it first dies after the second throw, now axes, with about 2/3 of the damage take 90% of your horse (with NEGATIVE speed bonus) health in one fucking shot, sorry to call your bullshit here. When I'm in melee and cav comes by and oneshots me do I think "boy this class is underpowered", yes, I do, I do however believe that there are way to many cav-my old friend inmy old friendtry hybrids and sometimes cav (hybrids) are topping 50% of all the servers players(I was calling this a lie at first, but the cav-inmy old friendtry hybrids grow every day), but they aren't OP, believe it or not, but it takes more skill (or extreme luck) for a throwing lancer to headshot you from 30 feet away than it does for a my old friendcher to shot you from near any lengths due to a far more noticeable arch, and some slight inaccuracy. Also: Things it takes to use an arbalist properly which can effectively oneshot, 3 slots, 0 wpf, what it takes to be a "hybrid thrower" (which you seem to forget is the main thing throwing is built for) is however 100 wpf (you also gotta be naked here), 5-7 skill points, and 3-4 slots... and you know what it takes to be an effective cav? 3 skill points and a heavy lance...

[Slamz]

Cav complaining about throwers is like a fat kid complaining that someone ate a piece of his cake.  You're already frequently the highest scorers in any match.  What more do you want?  I'm just happy I can occasionally kill a horse so you end up 20-1 for the map rather than 40-0.

[Vexus]

You sure the throwing axe didn't hit your horse legs? you know they got severely nerfed right?

[Smoothrich]

Increased leg damage is only for melee weapons, actually

Most (loomed) rus bow archers take off nearly half of a champion destriers HP with negative speed bonus with body shots, and some throwers, especially with the axes, black bar heavily armored infantry or heavy horses with hilarious ease with a single toss.  The good throwers I see have plenty of ammo until the end of the round, scavenging ammo all over the battlefield and 2 shotting any class all match long.

It's not like I'm making this shit up.  It happens every time I play, as cav or thrower or archer, and its by far the most unfun part of this game.  Though I think Rus Bow archery is way more OP then anything else in the game and hardly anyone speaks up about it, and think throwing is just really strong if anything, but maybe not OP.

[Turboflex]

Hard to take you seriously complaining about "OP" "unfun" stuff when you are a guy who consistenly does well in charts playing one of the most OP classes in the game (cav), a class that relies on attacking distracted people from behind for unopposed kills (something most people consider "unfun"), and now you're here complaining about the only active defences people have against cav backstabbers (ranged attacks), and using wildly exaggerated #s ?? 90% for a negative speed bonus axe hit??? it takes 2-4 of those to drop a horse, even when horse charges me and I nail it full speed, point blank it doesn't drop 1 shot unless I hit it's absurdly miniscule head box. Meanwhile Mr. Horselancer will drop me 1-shot, with a nonheadshot, in my decent 60ish armor.

[MCake_JL]

Hard to take you seriously complaining about "OP" "unfun" stuff when you are a guy who consistenly does well in charts playing one of the most OP classes in the game (cav), a class that relies on attacking distracted people from behind for unopposed kills (something most people consider "unfun"), and now you're here complaining about the only active defences people have against cav backstabbers (ranged attacks), and using wildly exaggerated #s ?? 90% for a negative speed bonus axe hit??? it takes 2-4 of those to drop a horse, even when horse charges me and I nail it full speed, point blank it doesn't drop 1 shot unless I hit it's absurdly miniscule head box. Meanwhile Mr. Horselancer will drop me 1-shot, with a nonheadshot, in my decent 60ish armor.

Usually headshot 1 hit kills ~ the problem isnt the hit box, it's easy enough to hit a charging horses head.

The problem is with the time it doesn't 1 hit kill; since you score an awesome headshot into a horse - which doesn't affect it anyhow, and the sword or lance kills you instantly -> that kind of sucks. But aim for the body instead, it's do-able.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

cav avoids thrower, problem solved, not like we can chase you accros the map

oh yea the 80% damage on your horse when running away, i call BS

[ROHYPNOL]

i still think throwing is a bit underpowered and can use a slight damage buff.. smooth for you to say a thrower can blackbar your heavy horse with a single toss is way funny unless it hits it in the head.. and this is a throwing thread not a rus bow thread.. its obvious that bows do way more damage than anything else anyway.. and no thowers do not 2 shot any build.. ive layed 5 jarids into these tanks and they still standing and thats almost half the ammo at 10 pt.. its underpowered compared to a lot of things.. and a buff to it would be awesome, expecially to cut back on all these damn lancers.. i would love to see more cav drop.. would make them be a lot more smart instead of charging in teambumping and killing just to try and scrounge for a kdr

[Smoothrich]

I don't think pierce damage throwing weapons are really that powerful at all, and things like the lance are balanced.  Its just the high cut shit like the heavy throwing axes that I think do way too much damage.  Urist/Paul changed the soak values for cut throwing weapons to be like it was before armor got nerfed so they would end up doing more damage because throwers complained that class of weapon was useless, so gimmick PT stacked builds + high cut throwing weapons + the sheer randomness of ranged damage calculation in the game + speed bonus fuckery = a bizarrely high frequency of throwing weapons doing 70-100 HP worth of damage.  I admit its not consistent or always, but I have certainly had cataphracts lose like 70 percent of their HP to body shots before.  Yes they don't get black barred or one shotted unless its a head shot, but ~100 damage is easily in the realm of probability against a moving target.  I swear riding away from throwers sometimes increases the damage as if you are riding towards them or something or just gets RNG'd to be high as hell no matter what.

i'm not a sperg or developer so I don't know the formulas but heavy throwing axes do 44 base damage.. powerthrow is let say, 14 percent damage bonus?  10 powerthrow.  About 70 base damage, am i right?  Ignoring a good chunk of armor due to the old soak values and that will black bar medium/heavy infantry.  I've definitely had it happen to me before.  This is with a single throw.

I don't really mind having my horse destroyed by a throwing lance or spear, or a light cav being wrecked by throwing axes.  I just think cut weapons being so effective in ignoring armor (honestly, I feel like armor should reduce all ranged more than it already does) is imbalancing.

And yes, when throwing was at its peak in cRPG a while ago, the game was absolute bullshit to play, and people would laugh at how OP being a hybrid thrower was, every battle had tons of shit being thrown about, most OP build was lame shit like huscarl + elite scimitar + 2 stacks of throwing axes with 7-9 PT and PS, the WPF scaling I believe hammered that down the most.  What this leads to is the decreased accuracy that some people complain about by your effective WPF being kind of shit, but light armor negates this for the most part I think.

Throwing might be a LITTLE weak, but pure throwers do insane damage and its a reasonable sidearm specialization.  Just please don't compare it to the viablity of a crossbow sidearm (way too easy) or teh damage potential of an archer (mind blowingly OP) because all of that shit is poorly balanced enough as it is.

I think the last thing the game needs already is more ranged players doing even more damage.  Just nerf cav and archers, leave the rest as it is and see how it goes. 

[Chestaclese]

Usually headshot 1 hit kills ~ the problem isnt the hit box, it's easy enough to hit a charging horses head.

The problem is with the time it doesn't 1 hit kill; since you score an awesome headshot into a horse - which doesn't affect it anyhow, and the sword or lance kills you instantly -> that kind of sucks. But aim for the body instead, it's do-able.

That's why I aim for the rider haha. I'll get him once when he's coming at me and once while hne's riding away and he'll think twice about going any where fucking near me next time haha. Fuck I hate horses. At the end of every round I do my part by looking for a horse to kill and promptly killing it.

[SirProto]

cav avoids thrower, problem solved, not like we can chase you accros the map

... I do   

Fuck I hate horses. At the end of every round I do my part by looking for a horse to kill and promptly killing it.

I feel exactly the same way hahaha 

[_Tak_]

I think the damage from throwing can be random, especially if you are on a horse. If you are at full speed going to couch a thrower and he is throw an throwing axe to you you can get instant death. I got 1 shoted by an thrower with an throwing axe due to the speed bonus. Sometime i lose like 70% of my health and sometime 50. Yea CAV has to avoid them because they are just too dangerous.


Edit: 1 throwing jarid can took 50% of my courser health, 1 throwing axe can took like 70% omg. Seems like cuts deal more damage than pierce.

[Digglez]

I think the damage from throwing can be random, especially if you are on a horse. If you are at full speed going to couch a thrower and he is throw an throwing axe to you you can get instant death. I got 1 shoted by an thrower with an throwing axe due to the speed bonus. Sometime i lose like 70% of my health and sometime 50. Yea CAV has to avoid them because they are just too dangerous.


Edit: 1 throwing jarid can took 50% of my courser health, 1 throwing axe can took like 70% omg. Seems like cuts deal more damage than pierce.

duh, its more dmg since your horse has NO armor to speak of.  typically have to be into like mail armor values 40+ for pierce to become more worth it

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

I'm starting to believe that the sacrifices linked to throwing are not worth the assets.

[San]

It's easier on horse to just  slow down and weave, maybe take your 20% damage or whatever and then stab the guy. Just avoid the pure throwers who you know are really good vs cav or have 7+ PT