Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.

[Joker86]

Already now I can't kill shit with my pike if there is not another teammate between me and the enemy. If someone manages to reach me, I am as sure as dead, I can block a few times, but every time I try to stab it either glances of the enemy or hits the ground or some obstacle nearby, and I need five minutes at least to recover from my blow, leave the chambered stab animation and be able to attack or block again. But before I am able to keep on fighting either the round is over or I am dead. (The descriptions in this text may containt exaggerations)

I demand overheadstabs for spear weapons, so we have at least two directions to attack, if not make stabs from all four directions, making spears as dangerous as they were. I hate how pikemen/hoplites are the worst class in this game. 

Edit: halberd like weapons are a different story 

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

hey, I'm just bringing in my ideas. (And many of them have been implemented across the life of this mod)

Nerf cavalry, buff katana, nerf polearms... hmmmmm how do these all relate to Ninjas I wonder

[Kafein]

- "too close" stab glances should happen, especially for pikes and long spears (to keep them utterly useless as duel weapons)
- buff pikes and long spears (speed and damage-wise)
- the glance effect should make all 2-directional polearms hard to use as duel weapons. Not impossible like pikes ofc. but certainly not as easy as now.
- they should still be good support weapons (-> fixing the team stab hitboxes would be nice)
- reduce the shield penalty of polearms (the lances should keep it though)
- only remove polestagger of 4- and 3-directional polearms, others should keep it (support role)


Btw, who are the active members of the ninja clan ? Khorin, Thomek, that's it ?

[Joker86]

I would support the suggestions above, but also add to drastically remove the "blocked stab stagger" or how you want to call it.

I don't see any justification for it, be it balance-wise or realism.

[Cris]

Im not an expert on polearm stab, and usually have no problem with it...

That said, ive seen some people stabbing stupidly fast on melee with awlpikes, and piricing even though im hugging them with my shield... hitting before I swing after ive blocked their thrust with my shield, that seems a bit OP...and the suggestion of only pircing at the right range would fix it.

Nevertheless, this would make many other polearm really bad, and most of them are well balanced as it is.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Do this to all but my precious throwing lance. 
JK, well... I support this but it wouldn't work properly with my throwing lance as I'd be switching between three different modes instead of two.
EDIT: If they could implement this without me having to switch through trowing-long-short to change range I'd also support it for my throwing lance.
 - Serpent_Zlisch_The_Slippery, that jerk who always throws lances at me in the duel server.

[Zerran]

Im not an expert on polearm stab, and usually have no problem with it...

That said, ive seen some people stabbing stupidly fast on melee with awlpikes, and piricing even though im hugging them with my shield... hitting before I swing after ive blocked their thrust with my shield, that seems a bit OP...and the suggestion of only pircing at the right range would fix it.

Nevertheless, this would make many other polearm really bad, and most of them are well balanced as it is.

The double stab trick isn't because of the speed of the weapon, the player makes the first stab hit at maximum possible range, then charges in and does the second stab at minimum range. This gives the appearance of the weapon being much faster than it is. Just watch for this and as long as you don't get hit by the first one, you can counter the second.

Stabbing around the shield is a footwork trick, they trick you into thinking they're going to stab more to one side, then switch to the other, or sidestep and spin at the same time.

I'm afraid this suggested fix would do nothing for either of these.

Additionally I might add that aside from the longest polearms (such as glaive) 2H generally outrange polearms already due to shitty animations, so the reason you get facehugged is that you have superior range. Making them unable to facehug, and making it so that you have better range is a bit... biased.

Speaking of the pike, stabbing at facehug range is not a simple maneuver, it takes good footwork, and even then is very easy to counter as long as you don't do something very foolish. 90% of the time when I kill someone is 1v1 with the pike it's because they were either a complete newb, or felt like they were 100% safe after going past the tip, and so totally let down their guard.

[CrazyCracka420]

hey, I'm just bringing in my ideas. (And many of them have been implemented across the life of this mod)

Of course I mostly know the game from my perspective, and they will therefore be a bit jaded..

I don't understand that this suggestion is so bad. Yes, it would further separate 2h and polearms, but this would be good, as they are quite the same right now. (in actual use.)

And of course this would be murder for polearmers dueling swords, but battle efficiency would be much greater if one increased the damage they do.

And honestly Paul, battle efficiency is what weapons should be balanced to, not dueling power. Balancing weapons for duels has created a bias towards certain weapons in battle, at the same time as any weapon can win against any weapon. I would rather have harder counters and weaknesses. If you want a jack of all trades weapon, that weapon would not be good in anything.. But this would of course require a whole change in the philosophy of what kind of game you want.

Kudos to you sir.  Yes your change would make it harder for a polearm to 1v1 a 2h.  It should be hard to do.  Weapons and classes have strengths and weaknesses, I don't like how C-rpg tries to minimize both to make it so that everyone's equal in a duel.  Certain things should be hard to overcome.  It should be hard to overcome ranged if you are in an open field without a shield.  It should be hard to overcome a 2h if you have a long pointy stick and they get closer to you than your stick is long.  This is all just common sense, but seems to be lost on the people who decide the direction of the mod.

[Zerran]

Kudos to you sir.  Yes your change would make it harder for a polearm to 1v1 a 2h.  It should be hard to do.  Weapons and classes have strengths and weaknesses, I don't like how C-rpg tries to minimize both to make it so that everyone's equal in a duel.  Certain things should be hard to overcome.  It should be hard to overcome ranged if you are in an open field without a shield.  It should be hard to overcome a 2h if you have a long pointy stick and they get closer to you than your stick is long.  This is all just common sense, but seems to be lost on the people who decide the direction of the mod.

What I would personally like to see is not making a whole class of weapons be specifically for one job, but rather make it so every class can perform multiple jobs by changing their weapon. Polearms do this very well right now, which I think explains some of their popularity. One round I can bring a pike and run support, next I can grab my long hafted blade or war spear and be able to duel, then the next I can grab a 2d polearm and do a bit of both. The problem, imo, is that none of the other classes do this as well. 1H don't have quite the same variety, but even there the exact way different 1H weapons play is quite different. In comparison, 2H just feel kind of static. I would love to see 2H (and bows) get more variety, rather than just weapon x > weapon y.

[Dezilagel]

And honestly Paul, battle efficiency is what weapons should be balanced to, not dueling power. Balancing weapons for duels has created a bias towards certain weapons in battle, at the same time as any weapon can win against any weapon. I would rather have harder counters and weaknesses.

Nononononononono.

No.

Rock-Paper-Scissors balancing is the worst kind of balancing there is, especially in such a (partly) skill intensive game such as warband.

[Joker86]

Im not an expert on polearm stab, and usually have no problem with it...

That said, ive seen some people stabbing stupidly fast on melee with awlpikes, and piricing even though im hugging them with my shield... hitting before I swing after ive blocked their thrust with my shield, that seems a bit OP...and the suggestion of only pircing at the right range would fix it.

Nevertheless, this would make many other polearm really bad, and most of them are well balanced as it is.

The two handed stab is not that much of a problem, but the one handed is. Although the long pikes are ridiculously slow after being blocked.

Nononononononono.

No.

Rock-Paper-Scissors balancing is the worst kind of balancing there is, especially in such a (partly) skill intensive game such as warband.

Well, it depends on how much teamplay you want to enforce. The more RPS-system, the more teamplay is needed. In a game where always two teams fight, instead of deathmatch free for all, I say a little bit or even a good amount of RPS is nothing wrong. It's always a matter of fine tuning.

[Teeth]

I support this. It would require a complete overhaul of the game mechanics, especially concerning 2H and polearms. We need more of a difference between the two. Now polearms and 2h are very a like. Make them more situational, make them completely different from eachother. Let both have their own role.

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Nononononononono.

No.

Rock-Paper-Scissors balancing is the worst kind of balancing there is, especially in such a (partly) skill intensive game such as warband.

I reckon this kinda balance is great, it makes the game feel a bit more like an actual battlefield rather than a load of nobles acting out their fantasies (by that I mean this can feel like an elitists game). I want to see peasants with spears (the militia of medieval times) to gang up and stab up a foolish duelist noble who got cocky (this would be the self proclaimed 'skilled players' in cRPG). I want to see those big noble tears drop as they get piled on by newbies with large rocks (oooh can we have a bigger version of stones introduced, but melee only, the hilarity of beating a guy down with a large rock!).

[Ninja_Khorin]

Rock paper scissors = Outnumbered players always lose regardless how bad the players are who's attacking the "noble"(the outnumbered one).

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

and thats how it should be