New ranged change

[Old_Sir_Agor]

i invite all my archers brothers to check this thread about buged arrows passing through bodies
and put a comment if u have same feeling as me!!

friendly archer ftw !!!!

+1 feels like bolts come thru targets also sometimes.

[Turkhammer]

Yes, because it is also able with melee weapons.
This is balance.. you know this word?

Yeah, and it's overdone in crpg.

[Grumbs]

I got 1 or 2 shotted all the time before and I don't use peasant gear. I think everyone just needs time to adapt and get used to it. Its natural for a period of adapting. People are just too used to easier kills. The good players will still do well, look at Jambi he actually posted an image topping the scoreboard post patch like it didn't change much for him. This all reminds me of people who will only use snipers in other games, like AWP in CS .

[Kafein]

1-tincan still run with superfastspeed
2-shielders has super forcefield, so (maybe it is some lags) they can block hits from sides and somehow hit in the back.
3-you said destrier die fast-before patch destrier need 3 my mw arb mw steel bolts shoots to die, mw destrier. But look many use now plated horses, so now it is impossible to kill this sort of cv for ranged,
4-US presidents ride unicorns.
5-Beer is made out of fish.
6-The moon is hotter than the sun.
7-I'm not making any shit up, just straight facts. All of it.

I'm ok for buffing throwing back to where it was. It was in a ok state. Maybe a little underplayed but not overpowered nor underpowered either.

For the rest...

*Compares his bow with a flamberge. Surely this is a valid comparison since you have to reach the enemy team on foot without dying, then engage in combat, having to block and deceive your opponent to get your hits in, all this while being exposed to all forms of ranged attacks when you use a bow. Just like with a flamberge. Not to mention that a 10PS build will die in many ashaming ways, either being too slow to dodge anything, or to have proper footwork in melee.*

Oh and in case you didn't noticed, your bow deals pierce damage. You know, you have been bragging about it in your signature for ages. The flamberge, however, does cut damage. I let you find out what the real outcome is when you face usual armor values. Also let us not forget that it is unlikely that our 10PS flamberge "spammer" ever reaches someone with light armor, given how slow he is.




All this complaining sounds really empty, when you know a bow does unblockable damage, and that shields, which are the only things that could eventually protect from it, are so ridiculously puny that an archer can safely draw his bow into an enemy shield, then move on the side like a fly with a jetpack and get a shot in. Archer stun ? What is that ? The thing that makes him unable to shoot for less time that anyone can actually notice, and that happens only half an hour after the shielder rammed into the archer, and only if the aformentioned shielder manages to hug the archer during all that time. And of course, a shield is soo heavy that it slows you down to oblivion. I think that in cRPG, the chars are not using their shields like they should. Even though it is displayed otherwise, they seem to be holding the shields with the side, so you can only block projectiles that happen to hit the shield's slice.

[Kafein]

Yes, because it is also possible with melee weapons.
This is balance.. you know this word?

Lol... I wonder how do you manage to say this and genuinely believe it.

[Gristle]

I don't know about bows, but the only crossbow that could score 1 hit kills against a lightly armored body was the Arbalest. Until very recently I used a Masterwork Crossbow, and even that couldn't kill a naked guy if he had any strength worth mentioning. So, the only ranged weapon that had a chance at 1 hit kill bodyshots also has the longest reload in the game. Wasn't that supposed to be the balancing factor? If someone is actively trying to kill me, I will not get 2 shots, and 1 probably won't kill him unless he's already injured.

I do think that only extreme cases like the Arbalest should be able* to get 1 shot kills. 1 hit kills should only be available to the most high end weapons in any class.

Edit: * Notice that I say "able," not "likely." I do not want to imply that it should be easy, but possible.

[Old_Sir_Agor]

Kafein say me than about my arbalest, for what i pay 1350g repairs if i need now 3-4 bolts to kill people, can be 1 more if big distance, and i have only 13 bolts, then if it is rain what point for me to use arbalest ?

and just why you write 100 pierce dmg on it, when 2h with 40cut make more dmg, for new players it is lie!

[LastKaze]

Range haters will be hatin all day.

[Elmokki]

36p bow against 50 armor with 10 PD, 156 wpf:
    Minimum: 28
    Average: 43
    Maximum: 58

49c 2h against 50 armor with 10 PS, 156 wpf:
    Minimum: 23
    Average: 42
    Maximum: 61

BUT WAIT, RANGED HAVE THIS EXTRA PENETRATION THING

36p bow against 50 armor with 10 PD, 156 wpf:
    Minimum: 60
    Average: 67
    Maximum: 74

It's retareded to compare raw damages before armor, because there are two things that matter heavily:
- Damage types against different levels of armor
- All armor is extra weak against ranged weapons (extra penetration tag increases reduction and reduces soak)

EDIT: I broke extra penetration for calculator, it's gonna calculate that correctly in a few

[Gurnisson]

Snip

You can't read. I said the combination of being untouchable on a roof and 100 pierce damage from a bow is simply ludicrous. Removing ladders would've been enough, like I've mentioned 3 times already. Stop putting words in my mouth already.

[Beauchamp]

for sure it will affect ammount of other classes - there will be more 2hs and cav on agile low hp horses.

[Leshma]

Dunno about 2Hs, haven't seen anyone topping the chart outside melee only server...

But cavalry... damn they are strong!

[Meow]

10 PD, 156 wpf:

10 PS, 156 wpf:

What?

A 10PS build works, a 10PD build sucks big time.
Also i think you missed the 33% damage reduction they get on body shots.

[Overdriven]

All this complaining sounds really empty, when you know a bow does unblockable damage, and that shields, which are the only things that could eventually protect from it, are so ridiculously puny that an archer can safely draw his bow into an enemy shield, then move on the side like a fly with a jetpack and get a shot in. Archer stun ? What is that ? The thing that makes him unable to shoot for less time that anyone can actually notice, and that happens only half an hour after the shielder rammed into the archer, and only if the aformentioned shielder manages to hug the archer during all that time. And of course, a shield is soo heavy that it slows you down to oblivion. I think that in cRPG, the chars are not using their shields like they should. Even though it is displayed otherwise, they seem to be holding the shields with the side, so you can only block projectiles that happen to hit the shield's slice.

Wait what? My shields with my hoplite have never had any problem with blocking arrows with a plain round shield or a huscarl shield  and never had an archer do as you described. I've also chased down quite a few archers with my hoplite. You have to be persistent, but it is doable and this is with a huscarl shield and heavy kuyak as well.

But anyhow...I still maintain this nerf was not needed. The ladder removal was enough. How can you judge the effects of one nerf if you add another one on top at the same time? One thing should be done at a time, particularly with the new launcher where updates are far more easy. There was no need to bring in 2 big nerfs for one class at once, particularly as the second affected all ranged.

[Gristle]

But anyhow...I still maintain this nerf was not needed. The ladder removal was enough. How can you judge the effects of one nerf if you add another one on top at the same time? One thing should be done at a time, particularly with the new launcher where updates are far more easy. There was no need to bring in 2 big nerfs for one class at once, particularly as the second affected all ranged.

I said the same thing before this patch went through. That's what has me particularly annoyed with this. This thread was made before the patch was released, and our complaints were ignored. I didn't need the patch to be released to know it was overkill.

First page of this thread:

Ladder removal is supposed to be a nerf to ranged (though I think NA will not be nearly as affected as EU). Can we deal with one major change at a time? Experiments are only supposed to have one variable at a time!