Athletics for archers

[Konrax]

Either i'm failing to get across what i'm trying to say or you don't follow my logic at all.

I'll keep it really really simple this time round, "Use your brain, adapt to the situation, think about what you're doing and don't blindly follow the spikey shooty thing."

You are human, you can change what you do, you have a brain that has many many different functions, don't just charge them, don't chase them, you don't charge head on towards a charging lancer do you? You move out of the way and then try something. It's the same thing, it's changing what you're doing to make sure that you murder them rather than them murdering you.

I completely agree with your second paragraph to an extend, i'd love to see someone try and run after something while taking off a set of full plate. 
However, as much of the game can be modeled around realism, it's a game, it's about game balance, about making sure that the classes are even enough to make each one viable, to increase the number of people who play and that will always make some angry because "their class has a weakness against blah blah blah". I may rage and swear about cavalry and their odd hit boxes etc but I'm not calling for nerfs because they are my bane.

In short, as I have said, use your brain and adapt, don't blindly run after them and then complain because they took advantage of that and as another point, it's not all archers that can outrun you, there are plenty of high strength and therefore high power draw archers same as there are plenty of high agility infantry.

I can't stress more that you should be the one to adapt and not the game, I dont' know who it was, but someone quite recently said something similar.

I don't mean to sound like an arrogant asshat, but your full of it.

The only real counter to range in this game is more range. Horses can't do it because they can't really protect them selves on approach, they can only ambush. Shielders can't do it because archers(xbowmen or back pedaling throwers) just run and shoot (assuming I use your strategy I will now be fleeing to the nearest bush) so really what other option is there, but to have MORE range in this game?

Your logic is flawed.

[San]

Shield is supposed to be the range counter, but really all it does it just buy the shield user time to stay alive, while his teams range kills the other teams range.

So that means that range is the counter to range.

Range needs to be move slowly during and after they fire their weapons, or kiting is always going to be what the best archers do.

Its poor game mechanics, and its not realistic. I know people frown on the realism argument but its quite fitting for this situation.

As a shielder, the only players other than mauls amongst a group I worry about are ranged. Shields protect in front of you pretty decently, but even if you're slightly off center of an archer, you can get hit. Not that bad, but when your shield is up, you move more slowly, so it's also easier for an archer to hit you somewhere anyways.

Only things I could think of would be to nerf ranged weapon users' kiting abilities, or increase the speed on shielders or mess with how shields work so they can better cope. A shielder can barely beat 1 (kiting) archer, let alone 2. There are many gaps where arrows and bolts can land, even 30 degrees off. I think both might overly nerf or buff these characters against other classes they were previously neutral against. Increased movement with shield up or increased coverage might be too advantageous towards other melee, for instance.

I only see shielders beat archers if one of them decide to approach and engage in melee, or if they sneak up on archers distracted by something else (something any class can do).

I feel more comfortable in melee than doing 360s as archers circle me in shield, since getting hit by an arrow stuns me long enough to get hit by anything else. It's easier to find cover behind a building as long as ranged aren't shooting at you over your shield on the rooftops.

[Siiem]

PD 9 MW Longbow with MW Bodkins, maybe?

With 30 Body armor Normal Hornbow users take like 1/6 or maybe 1/5 of my life.

You need a very specialized build to hit so hard as archer.

Doubt it, only people using cut arrows seem to that that kind of damage these days.

[Tennenoth]

I don't mean to sound like an arrogant asshat, but your full of it.

The only real counter to range in this game is more range. Horses can't do it because they can't really protect them selves on approach, they can only ambush. Shielders can't do it because archers(xbowmen or back pedaling throwers) just run and shoot (assuming I use your strategy I will now be fleeing to the nearest bush) so really what other option is there, but to have MORE range in this game?

Your logic is flawed.

I could have sworn that the topic of this thread was high athletics archers..? The whole reason I tend to keep away from threads like this is that they're very quickly derailed and people completely miss what you're saying.
From the word go, i've been trying to give my opinion on how not to die, I don't see how so many people can constantly tell me my logic is flawed by pulling in things that bend the target of the topic.

I'll make it even more simple, on the point of high athletics archers, don't chase them, adapt, do something different, make them think more than just "w, hold mouse, move mouse, release mouse". That has nothing to do with anything else, purely about high athletics archers that kite their enemies.

Please take that as for what it literally means, not adding other things. My attempts at trying to give a valid response have clearly been taken out of context. I can't make it any clearer for what I mean.

[Konrax]

Please don't take it as a personal attack, I respect your opinions and that your trying to give your point of view as a range character.

However,

Your tactics might work on a small scale where the environment has some options to work with, but in a battle situation with 50+ people in an open field the only option is the "w" key for us shielders.

[justme]

you want kill archer? then go high ath with low armor, it is stupid when some 2h want have 50 or more armor, deadly hits and run faster then archer? fu

nobody can run away faster then u

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

The only change I would like to see to ranged play is the disabling of all ranged weapons once one team is down to 10% (rounded up) of its starting players.  So if its 30v30 then as soon as 1 team is down to 3 players, both teams are forced to use melee weapons only.  9v9 would mean disabling ranged when down to 1 player on either team.

It is a simple change that doesn't nerf specific builds, means servers can continue to use the full range of siege equipment and tactics available to them and means the end of rounds are no longer dragged out by archer duels, roof campers or HAs.

What a retarded suggestion

Make all people who are ranged unperilous by destroying their weapons at the end of the round and feed them to the melees, as they have no real chance to defend themselves 

Some people write first and think....never?

Range needs to be move slowly during and after they fire their weapons, or kiting is always going to be what the best archers do.

Its poor game mechanics, and its not realistic. I know people frown on the realism argument but its quite fitting for this situation.

As stated in another thread, give me a bow and arrow, I'll draw it for you and show you, how fast I will still be able to run ;)


Btw Siiem, I once took more than 60% of a guy's life with one random shot with +3 longbow and +3 bodkins, 7 pd and 8wm, although he had a fully loomed transitional and much ironflesh.
These things can happen, but very rarely. It's the same with 2h. SOmetimes it happens that a 2h guy with 7ps onehits a guy in medium/heavy armour, sometimes he needs 2-3 hits. Depends on the exact point you hit (although I have no idea how all of that works, but it seems some parts of your body are weaker than others^^  And I don't talk about head )

[Tennenoth]

Please don't take it as a personal attack, I respect your opinions and that your trying to give your point of view as a range character.

However,

Your tactics might work on a small scale where the environment has some options to work with, but in a battle situation with 50+ people in an open field the only option is the "w" key for us shielders.

Trust me, I know it's not a personal attack, i'm not meaning to come across as "full of myself" because honestly, my entire intention of posting in this thread was to try and say that literally, it seems that most people just blindly follow the kiting archers and should adapt.

As I originally said, the smaller the target, the harder it is for the person to shoot so technically, it has it's advantages but the main point I keep stressing is that you should adapt, adapt, adapt, adapt, adapt. 

As stated in another thread, give me a bow and arrow, I'll draw it for you and show you, how fast I will still be able to run ;)

Try aiming at a target properly. ;) It's game balance mr Gisbert, and you know that! ^^

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Try aiming at a target properly. ;) It's game balance mr Gisbert, and you know that! ^^

I didn't talk about the aiming afterwards. I just talked about the running, as people always tend to say it is unrealistic to run with a drawn bow at such a speed. Actually running with such a light gear and a drawn bow is very slow in crpg, but hey, it's balance
I don't request faster runningspeed, but decreased runningspeed is by no means needed for any balance atm

[Cup1d]

In short, as I have said, use your brain and adapt, don't blindly run after them and then complain because they took advantage of that and as another point, it's not all archers that can outrun you, there are plenty of high strength and therefore high power draw archers same as there are plenty of high agility infantry.

IRL Infantry don't have brain. They have sergeant's order instead.
But in our game infantry do not have sergeant's aswell.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

IRL Infantry don't have brain. They have sergeant's order instead.
But in our game infantry do not have sergeant's aswell.

I knew what your second sentence will be the moment I saw the first one 

[Teeth]

Noticed the other day that 1 bodkin arrow took 80 % off my health. 57 body armour, 21 strength and 5 Ironflesh. Now that is ludicrous!

This, I have 60 body armour, I get body shot and lose more than half of my hp quite often.

[Lech]

it is just lol) if archer is so super good and just easy best build, then why we have not 100% of they? i know just maybe 5-10 good archers, all other are lame as hell. When you spawn just look how many archers in your team, and ofc it is not a problem, i think we have more cav players then archers.

and Lech it is just wow, you are shielder and cry about archers) when nowadays all take axes or mauls)

Because many people play the game for it's melee system ? Because some people dislike playing runaway bundle of stickss ? I know less than 5 good archers, all other are lamers who just exploit the fact they have nice escape system thanks to high agi and easy kills with no chances to strike back (unless they face ranged or cav in some situations).

Kid, first of all i don't "cry" about ranged. I merely discuss the game balance issues. I have way wider view about the issue than you, and current balance paradigm will lead to even more ranged and tankcav on the battlefield. Good players will still do just fine, because they are good, but most of people will just shift to most rewarding playstyle that don't require much skill.

As a shielder i don't have problem dealing with maul and axe users.

@Tenne, i get it: you just want to keep your easy mode. Just a tip, before the big patch plate users on plate horses said the very same thing to every other player, i wish your class will be just as nerfed as platecav was (but in different manner, lowering damage so you need 5 arrows to kill anyone if you have less than 7 pd, lowering your speed with bow so ath 4 people will outrun you). Then i'll give you tips to adapt and l2p.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

@Tenne, i get it: you just want to keep your easy mode. Just a tip, before the big patch plate users on plate horses said the very same thing to every other player, i wish your class will be just as nerfed as platecav was (but in different manner, lowering damage so you need 5 arrows to kill anyone if you have less than 7 pd, lowering your speed with bow so ath 4 people will outrun you). Then i'll give you tips to adapt and l2p.

You know that you just want the easy mode for yourself? 
There are so many shielders who can hunt down and kill archers, sometimes they die, sometimes they succeed. Imagine all of them would start whining about it....why do you have to do it?

And if you didn't recognise it, archers belong to the classes that received most nerfs in crpg....

Because many people play the game for it's melee system ? Because some people dislike playing runaway bundle of stickss ? I know less than 5 good archers, all other are lamers who just exploit the fact they have nice escape system thanks to high agi and easy kills with no chances to strike back
 

Where does all that shit always come from? o.O

First:  There are many people who play this game because of it's archery system, I even go so far to say that the number of people playing it because of that is more or less equal to the number of people who play it because of melee.
Stop throwing such stupid arguments into discussions. I really can't read that stupid argument anymore 
I've never played a game that has a multiplayer and such a nice system of ranged shooting and I suppose many others haven't as well, so please quit that blabla

Second: You should really wake up if you know less than 5 good archers who do not belong to the runaway-type 
If I take maybe half a minute I could at least name 10

[Lech]

Where does all that shit always come from? o.O

First:  There are many people who play this game because of it's archery system, I even go so far to say that the number of people playing it because of that is more or less equal to the number of people who play it because of melee.
Stop throwing such stupid arguments into discussions. I really can't read that stupid argument anymore 
I've never played a game that has a multiplayer and such a nice system of ranged shooting and I suppose many others haven't as well, so please quit that blabla

I know many persons who play the game for the very reason, heck even i play it for the very reason. Why do you think it's stupid argument, it's very good answer why not 100% play ranged shit.

Second: You should really wake up if you know less than 5 good archers who do not belong to the runaway-type 
If I take maybe half a minute I could at least name 10

Do it.

You know that you just want the easy mode for yourself? 
There are so many shielders who can hunt down and kill archers, sometimes they die, sometimes they succeed. Imagine all of them would start whining about it....why do you have to do it?

And if you didn't recognise it, archers belong to the classes that received most nerfs in crpg....

No, i wan't fair mode for him. Less ranged equals more 2h, cav and Poles so harder for 1h. Those archers can use teamwork to kill those shielders - shield don't protect 360 degrees. Why you expect that 1 ranged should have edge over every other class.

Archers also get many indirect and direct buffs.