Author Topic: Athletics for archers  (Read 5305 times)

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Offline Vibe

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2012, 01:28:45 pm »
0
And who tells you this archer just has 6 powerdraw?

There are soo many archers out there going for 7 or even 8 powerdraw nowadays, that you can never be sure about your statement  :rolleyes:

I for example have 7 pd and 8 wm. That gives massive damage, a good drawspeed and good accuracy. But on the other hand I'm more like a turtle when it comes to running :/   So I try to keep the distance between me and my targets before they come so close that I would have to run ;)
You have heavy armour and more life and a big weapon for melee. Go hide a bit and kill me from the side or just dodge my arrows or wait for cav/ shielders to attack me.
You can't have everything you know?
And usually archers were not attacked by a straight forward charge of stubborn infantry  :rolleyes:

Forgetting a thing called roof camping?

Offline Lech

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2012, 01:39:08 pm »
0
And who tells you this archer just has 6 powerdraw?

There are soo many archers out there going for 7 or even 8 powerdraw nowadays, that you can never be sure about your statement  :rolleyes:

I for example have 7 pd and 8 wm. That gives massive damage, a good drawspeed and good accuracy. But on the other hand I'm more like a turtle when it comes to running :/   So I try to keep the distance between me and my targets before they come so close that I would have to run ;)
You have heavy armour and more life and a big weapon for melee. Go hide a bit and kill me from the side or just dodge my arrows or wait for cav/ shielders to attack me.
You can't have everything you know?
And usually archers were not attacked by a straight forward charge of stubborn infantry  :rolleyes:

Asking works wonders, you know?

I don't have heavy armor, i have mail with mail mittens. I don't have big weapon, i have a shield and 7 athletics.

I can't have everything, i am countered by cav and by archers, i don't even have edge in melee thanks to using puny 1h. You on the other hand would, with 7 ath 7 wm 7ps, outrun me and 2h freaks (or shoot them and kite me), dismount cav and kite them, and the only things you have to worry is enemy ranged and tank-horses (and your own stupidity).

It's funny because straight forward charge was effective against archers not protected by other troops, and even in crpg it should be viable tactic. Archers should rely on teammates, not going rambo and do fine with it.

Offline Old_Sir_Agor

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2012, 01:51:39 pm »
0
it is just lol) if archer is so super good and just easy best build, then why we have not 100% of they? i know just maybe 5-10 good archers, all other are lame as hell. When you spawn just look how many archers in your team, and ofc it is not a problem, i think we have more cav players then archers.

and Lech it is just wow, you are shielder and cry about archers) when nowadays all take axes or mauls)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 01:53:00 pm by Sir_Agor »
shooting at people from a reachable place as last man standing is not delaying. Even if you're on the other side of the map.

Offline Cup1d

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 03:51:15 pm »
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Offline Old_Sir_Agor

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2012, 03:55:30 pm »
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shooting at people from a reachable place as last man standing is not delaying. Even if you're on the other side of the map.

Offline Tomas

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2012, 04:33:13 pm »
-3
The only change I would like to see to ranged play is the disabling of all ranged weapons once one team is down to 10% (rounded up) of its starting players.  So if its 30v30 then as soon as 1 team is down to 3 players, both teams are forced to use melee weapons only.  9v9 would mean disabling ranged when down to 1 player on either team.

It is a simple change that doesn't nerf specific builds, means servers can continue to use the full range of siege equipment and tactics available to them and means the end of rounds are no longer dragged out by archer duels, roof campers or HAs.


Offline Remy

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2012, 05:10:59 pm »
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 :|

How would that not completely destroy ranged troops?

Considering as a dedicated archer or HA one has usually no points in melee, it would be essentially auto-killing any ranged troops towards the very end of a round. Similarly, by the very nature of the leveling and requirements for weapons all players are limited in what equipment or things they can use.

All that is required to prevent delays(roof camping, runners, etc) is an active admin, killing of an entire group of classes ability to fight seems rather silly.

It would be similar to suggesting that for the first 30-40% of casualties on a server melee combat was disallowed to simulate the skirmishing period of a battle.  :?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 05:17:56 pm by Remy »
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Offline Cup1d

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2012, 05:38:13 pm »
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Also it would be neat to disable shields, horses, armors, 2H, polearms and 1H, if only 10% of enemy is alive.

True warriors will fight naked with dicks fists only.

Offline Konrax

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2012, 06:28:13 pm »
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Shield is supposed to be the range counter, but really all it does it just buy the shield user time to stay alive, while his teams range kills the other teams range.

So that means that range is the counter to range.

Range needs to be move slowly during and after they fire their weapons, or kiting is always going to be what the best archers do.

Its poor game mechanics, and its not realistic. I know people frown on the realism argument but its quite fitting for this situation.

Offline Tennenoth

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2012, 06:39:32 pm »
-2
Tenne,

so yr saying that the general tactic of a melee infantry for fighting archers should be - run and hope they die of a heart attack?

Not in the slightest...  :|

Infantry aren't cut out to take down archers if they are outrun by them. Archers can't out run other archers, xbowmen & cavalry.

The whole point of this thread was that athletics for archers is "too high" and the fact that they're complaining that they're killed is what I was addressing, if you don't want to be killed by a kiting archer, you run in the other direction, it's not difficult. Play a little bit more tactfully and you'll live through the arrow spam, don't and you'll be using that chainmail to hold his arrows...
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Offline Gisbert_of_Thuringia

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2012, 06:45:02 pm »
-1
Forgetting a thing called roof camping?
I'm all for removing it



I don't have heavy armor, i have mail with mail mittens. I don't have big weapon, i have a shield and 7 athletics.


Tell me how that is possible with lvl 30 or below?

Only lvl 32 archers or above can get such a build and that kind of archer of course exists, but it is so rare that I wonder why you whine about a special high lvl type of archer? o.O

Btw, as Agor mentioned: You have shield and cry about archers?   

 :lol: <-- All I can do about that

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2012, 07:02:58 pm »
+1
Not in the slightest...  :|

Infantry aren't cut out to take down archers if they are outrun by them. Archers can't out run other archers, xbowmen & cavalry.

The whole point of this thread was that athletics for archers is "too high" and the fact that they're complaining that they're killed is what I was addressing, if you don't want to be killed by a kiting archer, you run in the other direction, it's not difficult. Play a little bit more tactfully and you'll live through the arrow spam, don't and you'll be using that chainmail to hold his arrows...
By your logic, the best thing melee could do, is camp/hide for the first 3 minutes of a round till the archers either run out of ammo or die. If melee aren't cut out to take down archers, they should be trying to ensure that they, at the very least, don't die to them until they can ensure their ability to overwhelm them with sheer numbers.

In real life if you're wearing so much shit that it's somehow slowing you down enough to not be able to catch someone, you can just remove whatever it is that is slowing you down. In real life you don't have to put points into shield skill before you're able to pick one up and use it to block arrows. Sadly we're not going to get either of these in cRPG so you're always going to see complaints like this until archers can no longer kite. Meaning they may be able to run, but kiting becomes impossible.
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Offline Konrax

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2012, 07:11:37 pm »
0
^^^^^

Athletics delay!

Offline Gisbert_of_Thuringia

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2012, 07:27:47 pm »
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Tenne didn't say best for melee is to hide.

Read properly

Offline Tennenoth

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Re: Athletics for archers
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2012, 07:37:43 pm »
-1
By your logic, the best thing melee could do, is camp/hide for the first 3 minutes of a round till the archers either run out of ammo or die. If melee aren't cut out to take down archers, they should be trying to ensure that they, at the very least, don't die to them until they can ensure their ability to overwhelm them with sheer numbers.

In real life if you're wearing so much shit that it's somehow slowing you down enough to not be able to catch someone, you can just remove whatever it is that is slowing you down. In real life you don't have to put points into shield skill before you're able to pick one up and use it to block arrows. Sadly we're not going to get either of these in cRPG so you're always going to see complaints like this until archers can no longer kite. Meaning they may be able to run, but kiting becomes impossible.

Either i'm failing to get across what i'm trying to say or you don't follow my logic at all.

I'll keep it really really simple this time round, "Use your brain, adapt to the situation, think about what you're doing and don't blindly follow the spikey shooty thing."

You are human, you can change what you do, you have a brain that has many many different functions, don't just charge them, don't chase them, you don't charge head on towards a charging lancer do you? You move out of the way and then try something. It's the same thing, it's changing what you're doing to make sure that you murder them rather than them murdering you.

I completely agree with your second paragraph to an extend, i'd love to see someone try and run after something while taking off a set of full plate.  :lol:
However, as much of the game can be modeled around realism, it's a game, it's about game balance, about making sure that the classes are even enough to make each one viable, to increase the number of people who play and that will always make some angry because "their class has a weakness against blah blah blah". I may rage and swear about cavalry and their odd hit boxes etc but I'm not calling for nerfs because they are my bane.

In short, as I have said, use your brain and adapt, don't blindly run after them and then complain because they took advantage of that and as another point, it's not all archers that can outrun you, there are plenty of high strength and therefore high power draw archers same as there are plenty of high agility infantry.

I can't stress more that you should be the one to adapt and not the game, I dont' know who it was, but someone quite recently said something similar.
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