Author Topic: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon  (Read 4630 times)

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Offline Tor!

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 11:08:13 pm »
+4
I rather want to see more dedicated ranged players using a onehander as backup - like Ironlake does. I just think it fits better.

Oh, and on topic with the power of this little thing: It's fast, deals alot of damage, hiltslashes like a baws, blunt damage and knocks you down. To much good in a 1slot weapon.
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Offline Tzar

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2011, 11:15:22 pm »
+2
atleast they carry a weapon lol an doesn't run like a my old friend an kite
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2011, 11:37:01 pm »
0
Make it 2 slots.

Also I used it quite a lot with my 2h build. I kept it as a back up to a bigger slower weapon. And in a scrambler when the kill hungry noobs descend it does a hell of a lot because of its speed and short length.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 11:06:04 pm by FRANK_THE_TANK »
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Offline Tomas

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 05:58:30 pm »
0
What are the actual stat changes for using a weapon in secondary mode?

Offline Elmokki

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 08:17:00 pm »
0
It's a bit powerful for 1 slot sidearm role, but seriously, langes messer is fairly good choice too with 2h profiency. 22 more reach is nice and the polearm stab animation seems to surprise so very many. What is a shame is that the 2h animation just is so much superior that I would not see myself using 1h profiency for a sidearm since 2h gives so awesome options.

On a side note though, it's pretty damn powerful for it's price. Every other viable option is more expensive and many of them are worse. So increase price and maybe lower the weight to 2 or so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 08:18:27 pm by Elmokki »

Offline Ujin

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2011, 08:30:07 pm »
+3
I rather want to see more dedicated ranged players using a onehander as backup - like Ironlake does. I just think it fits better.


Looks like me and you have a similar idea of what this game could look like =).

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2011, 11:08:03 pm »
0
It's a bit powerful for 1 slot sidearm role, but seriously, langes messer is fairly good choice too with 2h profiency. 22 more reach is nice and the polearm stab animation seems to surprise so very many. What is a shame is that the 2h animation just is so much superior that I would not see myself using 1h profiency for a sidearm since 2h gives so awesome options.

On a side note though, it's pretty damn powerful for it's price. Every other viable option is more expensive and many of them are worse. So increase price and maybe lower the weight to 2 or so.

Chambering is hard against the 1h animations. Much, much easier against the 2h animations. But since n=fuck all people actually try and chamber I guess your right.
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2011, 11:51:36 pm »
+1
1h animations

Its actually better then any 1her, even those that cost up to 10 k gold! Just look at any crossbowman and what he carries - MACE.

The sad thing is that the alternative - 1hers as 1slot weapons and ranged sidearms are an EXCELENTLY balanced class. Hardly any 2 good 1h players use the same one, either of the 5 most expensive 1hers is a viable option, there are piercers, blunt, cut, stab, short, long etc. etc. Making people use 1hers instead of everyone ranged using this would add so much diversity of builds since there are so many viable choices in 1hers (some better, some cheaper etc. etc.)
2h animations are only superior when your weapon has a thrust, the Mace, doesn't. 1h animations can be thought of as a clear advantage in this situation due to the left swing tendency to head shot.

I see plenty of people not using the Mace, though nearly every duelist uses it. From a hybrid perspective, nerfing the mace to make it less viable would only hurt versatility. Currently you're able to bring the mace, a stack of bolts and an Arbalest one round, then the next round you can bring a German Greatsword, Crossbow and bolts; both are equally as effective. A one-hander can hybrid with a shield when he wants a lighter crossbow and when he goes with a heavier one, he has a surplus of weapons to chose from, many of which are faster and longer than the Mace. The only issue I see, is that polearms are the exception here, there isn't a good 1 slot polearm as far as I am concerned. Very rarely do I see a ranged hybrid (that isn't a fresh STF or low level character) using a 1 slot pole as their melee weapon.


tldr; Versatility is being hampered, not by the Mace being too good, but because there isn't a good polearm equivalent. Thus anyone desiring to hybrid melee (without shield skill, the would-be polearm+ range hybrid guys) with ranged or simply someone trying to maximize damage, will pick a mace. And nerfing the mace will kill off 2h + ranged hybrids in the same way that there aren't any pole + ranged hybrids, currently.

Edit:
No matter what you do... People will flock to one specific weapon type if playing range... Look at the "Diversity" in what people choose for 0 slot archer backups.

I agree the thing seems slightly too powerful, but a simple small tweak will fix that, say simply remove knockdown and it would be fine.
Remove the knockdown and you remove 20% of what versatility two-hander's have; all the greatswords have the same exact playstyle (the faster two-handers like the longsword have almost exactly the same style); you have three crushthrough weapons; the unbalanced, thrustless weapons (Which arguably, many of which could be the same play style as the greatswords); the Flamberge with its own style; and then the Mace and the marginally useful Goedendag, which suffers from low numerical damage and only 2.5 weight. Compare it with a War Spear that has, pole stagger, a range advantage, and much higher pierce damage that makes an even larger difference when you factor in speed bonuses.

Polearms on the other hand, have quite a bit of versatility to them. Pikes, Swiss Halberd + English Bill, Awl Pikes + Ashwood, Hoplites, War Spear + Red Tassle + LHSM, Great Axes + Bardiche's, Long Maul, Glaive+LHB, Bec, then the Poleaxes. Each one has a distinct playstyle due to the large differences in weapon range, speed, weight, damage and modifiers like unbalanced and knockdown.

You can argue with how I break down the playstyles, but I don't think it's really arguable that they have the same versatility. One-Handers by the way, having an equal amount of versatility with polearms due to pole's generally being terrible to hybrid with for anything other than cavalry (and even then, I play lancer cav with 1 pole wpf).
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 12:34:19 am by Tydeus »
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Offline Tomas

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2012, 02:25:58 pm »
0
Very rarely do I see a ranged hybrid (that isn't a fresh STF or low level character) using a 1 slot pole as their melee weapon.

I think this is mostly due to the fact that a polearm on your back gets in the way of your aim if you use a 3rd person view to shoot.  Good players can definitely compete with a shortened spear or quarter staff due to their speed. 

Offline Tydeus

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2012, 06:17:19 pm »
0
I think this is mostly due to the fact that a polearm on your back gets in the way of your aim if you use a 3rd person view to shoot.  Good players can definitely compete with a shortened spear or quarter staff due to their speed.
Only some polearms get in the way and that's only when you're at certain angles. Before the slot patch, I saw a lot of people with war spears, long hafted spiked maces and even german poleaxes.
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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2012, 08:36:38 pm »
0
People got so low nowadays that they wanna nerf this mace?
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2012, 08:47:03 pm »
0
People got so low nowadays that they wanna nerf this mace?
They actually just nerfed the speed on it from 99 to 98. =/
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Offline Teeth

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2012, 11:06:20 pm »
+1
Thing is ridiculously overpowered. People have trouble spotting the directions when you use it. For its price there is no better weapon, I actually use it sometimes on siege or when I'm using my money making gear. People can't block it, and if they can, it still knockdowns a lot. This should be atleast 3k more expensive.

Offline Brutal

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2012, 09:43:36 am »
0
Just tryed lange messer instead of mace on a alt becuz of this tread, my K/D ratio say thanks you very much :mrgreen:.

Without high atl mace kinda sux.

Offline Templar_Ratigan

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Re: [balance] Ultimate overpowered weapon
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2012, 11:52:42 am »
0
mace is op, there is no question about it.

Ironically I remember seeing one of the more well known and dedicated, (read boring narrow-minded fool), two handers use this for a bit stating, and I quote:
Quote
I wanted a challenge, so I decided to use a harder weapon.

Make or laugh at that what you will.
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