[stats/skills] Str + IF; Making IF sexy

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

My solution is simple! So simple its stupid! So stupid its genius!

Str gets no HP bonus and IF gives +4 hp.

Cheers
FRANK

[Vibe]

You are nerfing the fuck out of agi builds this way too.

[Arrowblood]

Bananas

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

How pray tell does making a HP bonus IF dependent nerf agi builds?

Base HP current 38. Base HP different 35.

Current system:
15/21 5IF 15 + 10 = 25 + 38 = 63HP
21/15 7IF 21 + 14 = 35 + 38 = 73HP

Different system:
21/15 0IF 0 + 0 + 35 = 35HP
21/15 7IF 0 + 35 + 35 = 70 HP
15/21 5IF 0 + 25 + 35 = 60 HP

[Vibe]

So everyone with 0 IF dies in 1 shot? Every agi build has low IF, possibly even no IF. It's usually the STR builds that have more IF. You're not really doing much with this change.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Its a drastic change. You would be forced to use IF if this was brought in it would be practicably mandatory. So it might be to far in the other direction. I'm still not with you on how it nerfs the agi builds. It looks like an archery nerf to me.

[Inkompetent]

Me like. It can also counter some crazy-athletics/WM builds somewhat, making them have to sacrifice at least some points into IF to not be one-shotted, meaning the very extremes of things are.. well... extreme. High-agility builds get less HP if they want to be lightning ninjas, and high-strength builds also get a bit less HP.

Might actually make people sacrifice points in all possible skills to get to a 'decent level' IF of 2-3 levels, to become resilient enough to damage.

Now we just need something against those pesky I-don't-need-to-use-skillpoints-to-kill-you crossbows...

[Cup1d]

This guy deserve to be one of the mighty balance team.

No, really...

[Ninja_Khorin]

How pray tell does making a HP bonus IF dependent nerf agi builds?

Base HP current 38. Base HP different 35.

Current system:
15/21 5IF 15 + 10 = 25 + 38 = 63HP
21/15 7IF 21 + 14 = 35 + 38 = 73HP

Different system:
21/15 0IF 0 + 0 + 35 = 35HP
21/15 7IF 0 + 35 + 35 = 70 HP
15/21 5IF 0 + 25 + 35 = 60 HP

This post is derived from that characters have 38(EDIT: or 35, new system) base HP + bonuses from STR(1 HP or none) and IF(2 HP or 4 HP). All the builds I present are basic non-hybrid melee builds at level 30 with maxed out WM, ATH and PS what's left of the skill points are put in IF.
Most common agi builds(not whatever those "agi builds" were):
It nerfs 16/24 with 0 IF = 51 HP (New system would be 35 HP) Difference: -16
It nerfs 12/27 with 1 IF = 49 HP (New system would be 39 HP) Difference: -10
It nerfs 15/24 with 2 IF = 54 HP (New system would be 43 HP) Difference: -11
It nerfs 18/21 with 3 IF = 59 HP (New system would be 47 HP) Difference: -12

And just for the record, it even nerfs:
21/18 builds with 4 IF = 64 HP (New system would be 51 HP) Difference: -13
24/15 builds with 5 IF = 69 HP (New system would be 55 HP) Difference: -14
27/12 builds with 6 IF = 74 HP (New system would be 59 HP) Difference: -15
30/9 builds with 7 IF = 79 HP (New system would be 63 HP) Difference: -16
33/6 builds with 8 IF = 84 HP (New system would be 67 HP) Difference: -17
36/3 builds with 9 IF = 89 HP (New system would be 71 HP) Difference: -18

Even my caveman char that's going for a 36/3 build with 12 IF/PS, 1 WM/ATH at level 31 would be nerfed. He now has 92 HP (New system would be 83 HP)

There, I did the math. Now notice that with more IF even with the new change would reduce the total health of all the standard builds. And those losing most health in this change would be strength builds and the 16/24 agi build that gives up health for a little extra damage. The build that's least hit by this change is the 12/27 agi build.

What does this mean? In other words:

Conclusion
All melee is nerfed, because to achieve the same level of health, they must spend more points in IF thereby reducing their damage and/or speed. Therefore this change is an indirect buff to ranged, since melee take less damage or deal less damage or swing slower than before.

This suggestion buffs ranged and nerfs the ranged melee capabilities(less HP and such).
I'd recommend doing your balancing posts with a mathematical basis in the future, and not "feeling" based.

EDIT: Spotted an embarrasing mistake in my calcs. The difference is even higher because base HP would be reduced to 35 from 38, all calculations have been adjusted accordingly.

[Tzar]

Voted no simply because archers and crossbowmen like myself would be raping everyone....

[Ninja_Khorin]

Oh, I'd like to add that from a personal point of view, I'm against any suggestion that slows the game down even more from what it is now. So voted no.

[Tzar]

Oh, I'd like to add that from a personal point of view, I'm against any suggestion that slows the game down even more from what it is now. So voted no.

Then your gonna be busy because this section is full of retarded impulse rage nerf threads....

[Vibe]

In the end,

Health gain from STR/IF is hardcoded and changing it requires more effort than it's worth.

[Ninja_Khorin]

Then your gonna be busy because this section is full of retarded impulse rage nerf threads....

Well, most people aren't as bored as I'm now.

In any case, noticed an error in my calculations, forgot to take in to account that with the new system the base HP is 35, not 38 as in the old one. TYhe HP difference between all the builds are increased by 3.

In the end,

Forgot about that aswell.

[Paul]

IF and STR hp calc is hardcoded all over the place.