When will you finally take out retarded things like jump-poking with pikes etc?

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Title says it.

It is retarded and totally unrealistic that a person can jump forward with a pike that is about 3 meters long or more and then thrust it while being in the air, without stumbling or falling to the ground 


Jumpshooting was taken out because of all these people crying how unrealistic it is etc etc etc, but jumppoking with such a longweapon is of course totally realistic and must stay in the game

[Vibe]

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[Plaksteris]

REMOVE POLEARM 360 TURN!

[Kaoklai]

You know what is even more unrealistic?  People taking 12-17 foot poles, sprinting forward, stabbing them into the ground, and propelling themselves 20 feet in the air.  Oh wait, that's called pole vaulting and trained athletes do it every day.  I have no doubt, that if a trained pikeman had the inclination or need to jump while thrusting a merely 9-12 foot pole, he could do so.  As to the real world efficacy of this possible action as a tactic, we will not speak, for any game lacking a one-to-one mapping of the human body only entails an abstraction of combat, not a true representation.  After all, I don't seem to recall infinite feinting, infinite sprinting, instant turning, turning on one's own axis without a pivot, strictly perpendicular blocks, or strictly four attack directions in any medieval or renaissance fechtbücher. 

On a more serious note, the more things a player can do and defend against, the more opportunities there are for skill to shine through.  Ceteris paribus, a game with 100 moves has a higher skill ceiling than a game with 10.  I like these little idiosyncrasies because it allows a player who can master and defeat them to be more successful than one who cannot, that is, it raises the skill ceiling and makes the game more variable. 

[Dezilagel]

How many times does it have to be repeated that jumpshooting wasn't removed because of realism...?

EDIT: Owait wrong board

[ArchonAlarion]

How many times does it have to be repeated that jumpshooting wasn't removed because of realism...?

EDIT: Owait wrong board

Yes wrong board. Leave your smarmy anti-realist comments out of the realism board, thanks. 

Jumping and swinging/thrusting a weapon, especially a pole weapon is very hard to do. Grab a broom stick and go try it in your backyard. You'll feel an odd sensation in your lower body and arms when you try swinging. That's because much of a swing's initiative force comes from hip movement that relies on the legs and feet pushing from the solid ground.

*edited
Jump attacking should be examined because it is abused by spear users. It looks ridiculous/lame/glitchy, distorts the role that a spear-man should be playing, and is counter-intuitive because it significantly ignores a player's expectations of what handling such a weapon would be like; M&B relies to a greater extent than other combat games on a sense of "weight" and physicality experienced by the player in relation to the aesthetic content of the game by way of directional combat and "realistic" weapon statistics.

With a small, light spear and finesse stabbing quickly at many angles would be effective, but the actual leaping, especially with longer, cumbersome spears is silly.

[PieParadox]

Kaoklai, since when do you use the forums? (u my old friend) I think pike users should be able to vault by pointing down and jump onto roofs 

Solution to jump stab with pike. Hold down block. Run away if you can't fight him. They are one of my favorite people to fight because it's so hard to anticipate them. 

Pike users can't pull out a bec or something anymore. Seems good nuff to me! Skilled pikeman are much more interesting/deserving now. Just glad I don't see dime a dozen long spear spam now!

[Ujin]

You know what is even more unrealistic?  People taking 12-17 foot poles, sprinting forward, stabbing them into the ground, and propelling themselves 20 feet in the air.  Oh wait, that's called pole vaulting and trained athletes do it every day.  I have no doubt, that if a trained pikeman had the inclination or need to jump while thrusting a merely 9-12 foot pole, he could do so.  As to the real world efficacy of this possible action as a tactic, we will not speak, for any game lacking a one-to-one mapping of the human body only entails an abstraction of combat, not a true representation.  After all, I don't seem to recall infinite feinting, infinite sprinting, instant turning, turning on one's own axis without a pivot, strictly perpendicular blocks, or strictly four attack directions in any medieval or renaissance fechtbücher. 

On a more serious note, the more things a player can do and defend against, the more opportunities there are for skill to shine through.  Ceteris paribus, a game with 100 moves has a higher skill ceiling than a game with 10.  I like these little idiosyncrasies because it allows a player who can master and defeat them to be more successful than one who cannot, that is, it raises the skill ceiling and makes the game more variable.

marry me

[ArchonAlarion]

  I have no doubt, that if a trained pikeman had the inclination or need to jump while thrusting a merely 9-12 foot pole, he could do so.

Could he spin around and jump with said pole whilst thrusting, as if it was made of air and passed through solid objects?

As to the real world efficacy of this possible action as a tactic, we will not speak, for any game lacking a one-to-one mapping of the human body only entails an abstraction of combat, not a true representation.  After all, I don't seem to recall infinite feinting, infinite sprinting, instant turning, turning on one's own axis without a pivot, strictly perpendicular blocks, or strictly four attack directions in any medieval or renaissance fechtbücher.

An argument that you could use to call into question any decision to make the game more realistic. "The game is not realistic in x,y,z ways, so the game can never be made more realistic."

On a more serious note, the more things a player can do and defend against, the more opportunities there are for skill to shine through.  Ceteris paribus, a game with 100 moves has a higher skill ceiling than a game with 10.  I like these little idiosyncrasies because it allows a player who can master and defeat them to be more successful than one who cannot, that is, it raises the skill ceiling and makes the game more variable.

I agree with you that variation keeps the game interesting, but on this matter its really about agi/wpf stacked awlpikers/pikers/halberders leaping around in a ridiculous way, doing the same move over and over and over and over: The opposite of variety.

[B3RS3RK]

Could he spin around and jump with said pole whilst thrusting, as if it was made of air and passed through solid objects?

Yes if hes Paxton Fettels Ghost.

[justme]

just remove any jump+ action for all classes..

[Overdriven]

just remove any jump+ action for all classes..

Ok as much as I have campaigned for this in the past, I must say this is a bad idea. Jump attacking is useful for taking on cavalry as melee. What's more, there's nothing more satisfying that getting a finishing blow with a jump attacking in a duel with my 2h. My favorite way to kill someone in melee. So let the jump attacks stay I say! (even for pike).

[Uumdi]

Its fine - block down

[ArchonAlarion]

Unless they jump all the way around you and stab you behind your block, which is the problem. Yes it is possible, especially with awlpikes.

[Gurnisson]

Nah, it's fine as it is.