Author Topic: Massive multiplayer strategy games and their metagame. Can something be done?  (Read 14005 times)

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Offline Erasmas

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There is a limit in number of fiefs that can be effectively managed by clan, and that number depends on the number of members. So - no, it is not true for any faction or alliance. At some stage the fiefs are simply ineffective and undefendable.
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Offline Vibe

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Good, but is Strat about taking fiefs and just idling in them or is it about fighting? Because when it comes to fighting there will be no difference, no matter the map size. You guys will stick together again versus a few small clans who actually want to fight but will stand no chance. Sure, they will be able to return to their fiefs on the other side of the map and idle there like you do.

Oh oh maybe even a better idea, make another separate map only for carebears where you can play sim city all the time, fief idling like a boss!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 08:11:26 am by Vibe »

Offline Vovka

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Good, but is Strat about taking fiefs and just idling in them or is it about fighting? Because when it comes to fighting there will be no difference, no matter the map size. You guys will stick together again versus a few small clans who actually want to fight but will stand no chance. Sure, they will be able to return to their fiefs on the other side of the map and idle there like you do.

Oh oh maybe even a better idea, make another separate map only for carebears where you can play sim city all the time, fief idling like a boss!
no one clan cant offer send more than 5-10k troops (its 5-10 active members who already involved in the management of the village or caravans) in same time even small clan can easy hold 2-3k troops in each village
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 08:27:00 am by Vovka »
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Offline Lepintoi

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Oh oh maybe even a better idea, make another separate map only for carebears where you can play sim city all the time, fief idling like a boss!

I agree, please make a separate map for clans that want to actually play a 'Risk' like game. If you would split up NA and EU in two different maps I'm even considering playing on NA side...

Offline Matey

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i like the Russia/EveryoneElse split idea :D maybe give them Poland too!  :lol:

Offline Zaharist

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i like the Russia/EveryoneElse split idea :D maybe give them Poland too!  :lol:

it's not RussiaPoland/EveryoneElse it's EveryoneElse/PussiesWhinersLosers ;)
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Offline Matey

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i dunno... pussies/whiners/losers accounts for just about everyone in strat.
fcc and those still stuck fighting UIF= whiners
uif = pussies
all the clans who lost all their land to uif already and stopped playing = losers

whos left?

Offline Harpag

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Hey, Aemaelius before you give me a minus, think for a while. My proposal is probably very simple and fast for implementation. It's important, because we play here and now. Centralization - it's true, but it gives great potential for faction with only one village (read - small clans). You don't need to have a lot of villages to be strong. In our particular case, three or four villages would be ok. It can work nearly as big map.
Simple and quick solution, similar to better XP, without making a doctorate.

PS. Ppl, stop complaining and trolling.
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Offline Slamz

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Another random brainstorm idea...  people familiar with World War 2 Online will see where I'm coming from on this.  It's also complicated but hey, chadz did say he was running out of ideas.  I have lots!


Picture if you will...

Players can only carry 30 troops with them.  We'll call this a "skirmish group".
Skirmish groups work just like now: they can go anywhere and do anything the player feels like doing, but only with 30 troops.

There are also "armies".  Armies can have any number of troops in them.
Armies are created by the clan leader and then assigned a controller (another clan member or himself).
Each army has multiple components:
Headquarters (this is what the clan leader initially creates -- it consists of a minimum of 50 troops but can have as many as you want)
1-4 Brigades (created separately and assigned to the HQ.  Minimum 50 troops each.  No maximum.)

* The headquarters must be in a clan owned or neutral fief (village, town or castle) in order for the army to function normally.
* If the headquarters is not in a clan owned or neutral fief, then its brigades cannot attack and will fight at 1/2 strength if attacked (you get half of your troops and half of your equipment list -- the other half is retained if you win and destroyed if you lose).
* Brigades can roam around and operate similar to a skirmish group, but they are limited to a range of 20km from their headquarters.

This represents logistics/supply.


This should do several things:

1) Clans will tend to expand outwards from a central hub as their big brigades can only attack 20km away from an owned resource.  You have to progress smoothly across the map.
2) You can sort of create a "front line" and a "back line".  If your castle is 21km away from the nearest enemy fief then you know they can't attack it.
3) "Raids" will be attacks on backline places with skirmish groups.  Raids work just like attacks except if you win, you greatly impair the efficiency of that fief for 6 days rather than capture it.  So 5 players can bring their troops together to raid some village that their main armies can't reach and if they win, it burns (and they may get looted equipment and so forth).
4) More action on the map.  Rather than 1 player being 1 army, he can potentially be controlling many separate armies.



So Digglez assigns me Army 1 which consists of an HQ and 2 brigades.
We own Ambean, surrounded by hostile fiefs.
I send brigade 1 towards Tahlbert (19km away) to attack it.
I keep the other brigade at home, with the HQ brigade.
I move myself towards Mechin (> 20km away) with my 30 troops and some clanmates to raid it.

While this is happening, I see an FCC brigade coming from Jelbegi Village.  Backstabbers!  I send my second brigade towards it with orders to attack.

Some raiders attack Ambean.  This engages the village garrison.  If I want, I can move stuff from my HQ brigade into the village as well.

So now I have battles pending:
* Our raid on Mechin
* Enemy raid on our village of Ambean
* Our 1st Army, 1st Brigade attack on Tahlbert
* Out 1st Army, 2nd Brigade attack on the incoming FCC brigade.


The underlying idea here is that small clans don't necessarily need allies everywhere, they just need allies at places within 20km of their home village.  If you anger LLJK it won't matter too much -- they can't just build up 3000 troops and walk across the whole map to trounce you for the hell of it.  They'll have to beat everyone in between you and them so that their armies have a place to attack you from.


Other Option A:
We might have capitals and "supply roads".  For 1000g you can create a supply road between your capital and any fief within 20km and then expand out from there in similar manner.  Every HQ must have a supply link that can be traced back to the capital.  So even if there is a neutral village next to you, LLJK can't just go there and take it, then attack you.  At best, they could create a splinter clan to do it in their name, but then that splinter clan will be completely on its own, unable to receive support from LLJK armies, which would have no supply up there.

Other Option B:
Like option A except instead of building roads within 20km, roads are built into the map.  Rather than use 20km limits, you are simply limited to attacking with armies along connected roads.  If there is no road between Ambean and Tahlberg, I can't use my armies to attack it. (WW2O and Planetside both worked like this -- also it's somewhat like Risk.)
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Offline Tot.

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Well, the bigger map gives smalltimers more chance to actually capture some villages, though it doesn't solve much if they retain their attitude 'either we win or we GTX/flee/kill you with boredom'. Proportions will remain the same unless smaller clans will finally start doing something else than forum wars and organize together. At least with bigger map they might have some interest in preserving the ownership of the locations they had captured before Hannibal came to their gates.

Unfortunately, thinking players isn't something you can implement.  :wink:

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Offline Camaris

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Well, the bigger map gives smalltimers more chance to actually capture some villages, though it doesn't solve much if they retain their attitude 'either we win or we GTX/flee/kill you with boredom'. Proportions will remain the same unless smaller clans will finally start doing something else than forum wars and organize together. At least with bigger map they might have some interest in preserving the ownership of the locations they had captured before Hannibal came to their gates.

Unfortunately, thinking players isn't something you can implement.  :wink:

the only thing you want is good fights without anyone being  dangerous to you.
every different size of map will just speed things up or slow things down.
It wont change the big blob. it wont change that everyone gets raped without a chance
at some time. Probably nothing cant be done if players dont change.

Offline Lepintoi

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Its UIF that has to change, not the game.

Offline Dalhi

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Its UIF that has to change, not the game.


Go on, give us some ideas.

Offline Tot.

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Its UIF that has to change, not the game.

Instead of keeping on with these F5-forum-wars you might want to use that energy to figure out what you did wrong that you lost. :)
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Offline Camaris

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+1
we trusted in wolves and had not enough allys.
probably you suggest us to join the side with most allys next time.
perhaps we should do this.

back to topic:
there were such good ideas in this forum how to get things to even out.
- penalties for holding too many villages
- depending on membercount of every clan
- ai revolts if there are not enough member of the owner around in a village
- loyality system

all those would prevent clans to take half the map before the real game even has started
or any castle or city is taken.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 12:59:28 pm by Camaris »