Author Topic: Archery buff  (Read 11935 times)

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Offline Duke

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2011, 03:04:36 pm »
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I think, there is simple solution.  Without all WPP-WPF system reworking. And without serious rebalancing.

Just decrease requirements for bows

Example:
hunter bow - 0 pd - is good for this useless piece of shit.
short bow -  1 pd
nomad bow - 2 pd
khergit bow - 3 pd
strong bow - 4 pd
longbow - 6 pd - 18 str for most damaging weapon in category is good. Ranged flamberge.
warbow - 5 pd. Still more than native requirements (4 pd in native)
 
Poul, answer please. What do you think about this suggestion?

I don't see a problem with Cup1d's suggestion, personally.  Yes, that'd free up more Agi and yes there's already lots of Agi players, but I think that's more an issue of Str needing more benefits, and that'd be getting off topic.

On a side note, not OP =/= balanced.  There is such a thing as under-powered, people.  You don't have to think something is UP, but you do need to understand the distinction between balanced and UP.

Offline Cup1d

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2011, 03:06:21 pm »
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Cmon, I want to hear more cries from tincan kindergarten)

Big prepatch problem - cumulative addition of the WPF bonuses. Too many chars abused this possibility. And I remember way to more lighting fast melee before than now.  Now that possibility gone.

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And i think the goal of the patch was to have less noob archers.

Archers (and all ranged) was a counter to cavalry. Weaken archers = overpowered cavalry. Overpowered cavalry = overuse of throwing. Because you need some counter to cavalry. And throwing today is really effective. Not overpowered, but really better then all archers with Hunter/Short/Nomad/Khergit bows. You just cant kill Destrier with all this bows. Because you need more than 10 shots. 10 accurate shots impossible in skirmish. But you can receive massive ranged spam as result.


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cos now you need some time between each shot and you can't be a machinegun anymore

All we have now - retarded\unrealistic archery animations and slow rate of fire.
And ever if this animation is similary with RL HA motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InWW_uhX_Ts&feature=related
It has a great difference with foot archery. They even broke sizes of big bows. Because it looks retarded with new animation.

By all means tincan kindergarten more comfortable in this mod than anywhere else.


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Why? cos it's impossible to one shot armored guys (except headshot) and before patch it was possible

It was impossible with all armor higher than lamellar west.
Prepatch I have Balanced longbow (8 pd) and 225 wpf. I know what I speak about.
Now it look retarded. With 10 PD and 138 wpf in archery, with MW warbow and sharp bodkins I need 6-8 shots to kill tincan (approved on duel server). Or 1-2 shots from sniper crossbow and only 150 wpp in crossbows. But as crossbower I can make valid hybrid, and still be effective in melee and ranged. As archer I cant.




Offline bruce

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2011, 03:36:55 pm »
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What tincan? Tincan armour isn't upkeepable (neither is riding a destrier fulltime), people can use it periodically. 80% of the people are wearing mail or worse. And you have a easier time shooting shielders then ever, since everyone who isn't using a huscarl is very easy to hit from even a slight angle, and sometimes in the feet.

You're delusional. Heavy cavalry is gone. Heavy armour is worn maybe by 10% of the people tops, and then they have to grind and grind for it again. Shield coverage has been massively nerfed. You got a part of your damage back. Crossbows don't oneshot you anymore.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 03:38:16 pm by bruce »
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Offline Cup1d

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2011, 04:56:55 pm »
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Quote
What tincan? Tincan armour isn't upkeepable (neither is riding a destrier fulltime), people can use it periodically. 80% of the people are wearing mail or worse

Transitional armor - 19407
Shynbaulds - 3822
Faceplate 5990
Wisby Gauntlets 4848
Bar Mace 5150
all in all = 39217

Upkeepable. Approved.

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neither is riding a destrier fulltime

Destrier - 26447
Light Lance - 1910
Elite Cavalry Shield - 3912
Tourney Armor - 3834
Flat Topped Helmet - 1623
Mail Chausses - 1358
all in all = 39284

Upkeepable. Approved.


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You got a part of your damage back

And then it was taken back, by decreasing projectile speed.


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Crossbows don't oneshot you anymore

Really? I reserve my own opinion. 97 pierce is more then enough to kill 80% of players.

Offline Keshian

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2011, 05:30:13 pm »
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Archery is not OP now in any circumstance. But in all honesty I don't think it needs a damage or accuracy buff. As an archer, what I would really love to see, is faster arrows again. Those things are painfully slow. I can let out a yawn as I watch my arrow fly across the map only to see the guy I shot at simply sidestep.

It makes archery duels pointless. If archers duel they are just wasting arrows because it is far to easy to side step the slow arrows unless you are 10m away from each other.

As an archer I will start archery duels becasue I remember how much fun they were pre-patch with an incredible test of skills based on quick aiming and then dodging in erratic fashion witht he best archers lasting for tens of seconds and the worst dying quickly, I remmeber dueling Nebun and Pululu for well over a minute until one of us ran out of arrows, but most people didn't know how to dodge in erratic manner or aim the reticule dead on the target with a slight adjustment for leading the shot and calculating their next movement all in a matter of split moments so this was the exception, not the rule.  One of my favorite things along with strategus sieges.  Now any idiot can dodge the other archers' arrows and with the incredibly slow animation everyone has plenty of time to center the target and aim dead on (of course it will be dodged easily if they are aware as like the xbows slow release trigger you just dodge 1 second before they release), but if you don't have enough wpf the random factor kicks in and the arrow will stray left and right at medium to long range by considerable angles so you often need 3-4 shots to hit an afk person just standing there.  So it becomes a random potshot back and forth with little real skill involved and gets boring real fast.  And you still need to hit people 3-5 times to kill them, more if they have good armor.

So most times I simply use my athletics easily dodge any arrows aimed at me, pull out my melee weapon and kill the opposing archer with 1-2 hits as this is so much quicker and I can move on to the next target.  I have been playing archer less and less as it is comparatively hugely UP to other classes, especially melee.  If I just roll any type of melee character I can rack up 2-3 times as many kills in the same amount of time easily, so I still do it for the occassional thrill  of hitting enemy opponents while they are involved in melee so my teammates can kill them or shooting the unarmored horses down, but it really is a 100% support character now, no individuality where the only time I see archers really racking up kills is where you see a clan pack of them 5-6 together all shooting at same targets, and usually one happens to dominate with the final kill shot making people say oh look an archer topping or nearing the top of the charts, though the team probably could have done better with 5-6 melee guys instead or even better insta-kill throwers.

And cupid is right I can wear transitional heraldic armor with hornskull bascinet, miadao or bec de corbin with good gauntlets and boots and still make money consistently all the time.

Honestly, what I most want gotten rid of is the random factor as this should never have been implemented, just make the reticules larger and the draw speed slower with lower wpf, don't make arrows go in random directions.  Also, would like to see you be able to hold shots for more then 2-3 seonds so you can track targets ratehr then have to worry about reticules going wide again and every arrow goingoff at 45 degree angle even with 150 wpf and powerdraw 2 above the bow requirement.  This is a real life sort of thing too, archers can always hold their shots for more then a couple seconds unless they are at the absolute peak fo their strength capabilities on the draw, but if you are using a weaker bow you should be able to hold it for 5-10 seconds easily.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 05:44:42 pm by Keshian »
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Offline Furax

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2011, 05:54:09 pm »
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Arrows need to become faster in flight.. Just ridiculos that you can watch them fly against you, have an internal discussion about which direction your gonna casually step too, watch it some more, sidestep, dodged.

Are arrows supposed to be like ninjas now? Only deadly if you cant see them?(no offence ninjas).

Offline Patricia

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2011, 05:55:43 pm »
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Arrows need to become faster in flight.. Just ridiculos that you can watch them fly against you, have an internal discussion about which direction your gonna casually step too, watch it some more, sidestep, dodged.

Are arrows supposed to be like ninjas now? Only deadly if you cant see them?(no offence ninjas).

You just need to get better at aiming, there's some GOOD archers (Keyword: Good, and not you.) that can snipe me from far as hell even though I'm dodging.

Ploop can snipe my ass from a mile away and one-two hit me in heavy armor.

Offline 3ABP

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #97 on: February 26, 2011, 06:01:52 pm »
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You just need to get better at aiming, there's some GOOD archers (Keyword: Good, and not you.) that can snipe me from far as hell even though I'm dodging.

Ploop can snipe my ass from a mile away and one-two hit me in heavy armor.

No one can snipe now.
Some random shots - isn't sniping.
But yes - some random shots may looks like sniping.
Especially if you are target for those shots but not a sender.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 06:03:23 pm by 3ABP »
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Offline Furax

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #98 on: February 26, 2011, 06:05:13 pm »
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You just need to get better at aiming, there's some GOOD archers (Keyword: Good, and not you.) that can snipe me from far as hell even though I'm dodging.

Ploop can snipe my ass from a mile away and one-two hit me in heavy armor.

You little rascal you, has nothing to do with accuracy, the arrows goes exactly where one wants them(most of the time anyways) its just no problem avoiding them, maybe you need to get better at dodging :wink:

And im not talking dodging the crazy dance move, im talking about watching the actual arrow fly towards you at near throwing axe speed and casually avoiding it.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 06:07:41 pm by Furax »

Offline Patricia

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #99 on: February 26, 2011, 06:06:42 pm »
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No one can snipe now.
Some random shots - isn't sniping.
But yes - some random shots may looks like sniping.
Especially if you are target for those shots but not a sender.

So, I'm the last guy standing and the archer is totally getting me twice in a row from a mile away with random shots and killing me.

Okay, thanks for proving my point that archers should just learn to become good instead of asking for buffs to be LOLEZMODE and just one hit everyone and snipe everyone (A bit like right now except atleast that's reserved to GOOD archers)

Oh and Furax, I've made an archer, hitting dodging targets is EXTREMELY easy, just predict where they side step and boom arrow right in their guts/faces, all this thread tells me is some of you archers just have to get better at the game.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 06:07:44 pm by Patricia »

Offline Furax

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2011, 06:11:30 pm »
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And FYI Patricia, Im frequently in the top 3 when I play my archer, but most likely because of people that cant dodge properly.

Offline Patricia

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2011, 06:13:52 pm »
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Well shit, if you can top the scoreboard what the hell are you complaining about?

Offline Nemeth

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2011, 06:20:20 pm »
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Really? I reserve my own opinion. 97 pierce is more then enough to kill 80% of players.

You're talking about triple hierloomed sniper xbow, and still it would do 95 dmg (with steel bolts). Double hierloomed sniper xbow (83 pierce +8 for bolts) hardly one shots anyone, 90% of times people survive my bolt, even light armoured archers. There are times when even guys in cloth survives it. So no, 80% of players would NOT be killed in one shot.

Offline Furax

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2011, 06:22:08 pm »
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Arrow flight speed.

Its not my fault other people underestimate/ignore archers. But il gladly kill them anyways.

Offline Joxer

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Re: Archery buff
« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2011, 06:45:51 pm »
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For those who like to argue about balances might I point out that at least on EU1 there is exactly 1 archer who is constantly in top3. It's always melee/cav who dominate. Numbers dont lie so shove your arguments  :twisted:
Why is everybody telling me to think? I think, I just don't show it.