[POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?

[Frankysan]

do something for crossbows guys i keep getting oneshot in full lordly medium set, and not talkign about headshots. This is insane!

[Tomas_of_Miles]

NO, I am 100% with Karasu, although I would like to see some give and take, and players recognise the real ranged problem: Crossbows. Arbalest IS a 1shot kill, if you are not 1hitting with an arbalest, you ARE doing it wrong.
So, in short, lots of archers can be a pain, but smart use of shields negates them: Arbalest spammers that shoot thru shields and still 1hit...who can wield a very powerful melee weapon, and wear heavy armour, combined with the new reload speeds of Xbows, and pinpoint accuracy crossmap, the extreme speed of the misile meaning its easy to aim, and hard to dodge.
I understand that the balance team includes a crossbow lover, but this is now ridiculous.
BTW: I am neither archer nor crossbowman, nor a 2handed greatsword/polespammer HERO who wants the game balanced for them (as it has been for a while tbh), Im just a poor shmuck with a 1h sword and some javelins to stop the HA goons.

No offense, but I think a crossbowman is more qualified to say whether their weapon 1 shots all the time, or is hard to dodge. As said before, close quarters the crossbow has deccelerated less so retains it's damage, and is more likely to 1 shot. Also bring into that the speed bonus of running towards someone. In close combat, the release of the arbalest has a delay which can make shooting a skilled dodger pretty hard. I made a stf longbowman and I found it much easier to hit people from long distances, as shoot speed was nice for long distance, and I could adjust my aim more often if I missed. I often don't one shot with my arbalest, and it is masterworked, as are my steel bolts. With 130 wpf the reload time is not excellent. I won't deny it is one of the deadliest weapons in the game but I don't think it is either the problem here or the point of the thread.

If I get tired of the population of the server (too many cav, vs Grey's on small siege ) then I go to another server. And that's after I've tried to adjust my tactics. I think Koldborn mentioned Chase and Cooties' survivability. This is a good point. Before you criticise the balance of the game look at your own character and playstyle and see whether you can change it for the situation.

[BlindGuy]

You are playing in your dreams aren't you ? Hiding only leads to dying or loosing when the MOTF flags spawn. There's no way around that. The archer goes to the flag and flees when you approach, if he didn't kill you after all this, he's level 10 or a terrible player.

Just spam mouse round while you feint: You cannot be hit. 10 gens of being an archer and I can confirm it.

Also, I assume all arguments are based off ONE infantry vs ONE archer, after that is doesnt matter what class you are, 2v1 you are going to die unless the 2 are utter noobs. Also I assume that we are discussing lvl 30+ players, since obviously at lvl 20, lvl 30 archer is gonna mince you, since he has more Athletics, PS and IF than you most of the time.

[HarunYahya]

he's level 10 or a terrible player.

Which you hardly see on EU_1 =)
Therefore you die.
I dunno about other servers guys don't forget that this discussion is about EU1 .
On EU_1 we have lots of skilled archers plus sometimes shitloads of unskilled archers who just shoots anything.Arrows doesn't glance . You have like 30 arrows to shoot. If there are 20 archers in 1 team that makes 600 arrows.
Let's say 10 of those 20 archers are skilled and 2/5 arrows that they shoot are succesful.
that makes 120 successful shots by skilled archers.

let's say the other 10 archers hit succesfully with 1/5 ratio 
that makes 60 successful shots by unskilled archers.

180 succesful shots.
Let's say it takes 5 shots to kill a guy(Counting shields to break,horses to kill) >>> 180/5=36 guys dead .

[Tavuk_Bey]

do something for crossbows guys i keep getting oneshot in full lordly medium set, and not talkign about headshots. This is insane!

I WONDER HOW PEOPLE ONE SHOT TINCANS WITH XBOWS. SOME PEOPLE SURVIVE MY ARBALEST HEADSHOTS WITH THEIR BARE SHITTY NAKED HEADS.

[BlindGuy]

@ Karasu: Only pick up arrows of your own type: If you got bodkins, any bodkins (any level of 'looming) will get you an arrow without a bug, but any other type will mess your slots up: I think this is fine, dont be greedy, stick to arrows you got.

@ koyama: You didnt calculate properly, Shields sap many many arrows, and lots of arrows are lost into teammates backs XD

@ Tomas: I dont have an issue with Arbalests being in the game, or their 1 hitting, or anything like that: My problem with them is that you can have a 1hit ranged weapon, 8 ATH, a good melee weapon, and heavy armour on without sacrificing much accuracy. And thats lvl 30, I believe Dave now has 9 ATH.

[RandomDude]

50% of the time I love eu1. The other 50% of the time there's always something to rage about if so inclined.

Last night it was too much archery on 1 team for sure.

Another night it might be 12 cav on 1 team.

Another night it might be that I just suck.

[Gravoth_iii]

Lots of complaining about ranged lol, a arbalest shot to my body deals 60-80% damage wich isnt very much and i have a total of 56 body armor. Also get a shield.

The only thing i dislike about ranged is that when my team is full of archers and xbowmen it feels lonely fighting armies with like 5 men against 20 so yeah balance needs to put equal amount of archers on each team if possible.

[Overdriven]

Wow so many dumb biased arguments.

I personally think ladders should be removed. That would at least help the situation.

1)
Allowing ammo (arrows&bolts) only in the 3rd and 4th item slot. With that taking 3 ammo stacks is impossible and people would always have a spare slot for a melee weapon. It would fit the historical context too because I doubt that there were any ranged troops without a fallback melee weapon. Disadvantage some fellow dev brought up is that this reduces equipment layout choices. Obvious advantage is that it reduces the overall ammo count and the need for an archer to turn and run if he has no melee weapon.

2)
I'll ask cmp for the Native sprint mode code. Maybe we can make it so that someone with a bow or crossbow in the inventory has a slower sprint mode than a melee guy. With that even a lighter armored ranger can't simply run away, turn, shoot and run again. The melee guy would catch him quickly.

1. That would be a pain for horse archers who can't pick up arrows as easily as foot archers and so we need more ammo. I like the suggestion of increasing loomed arrows ammo as a result of this. Also if you do this, allow for any arrow type to be picked up and added to your quiver, like it was before. Otherwise it would be a pain in the arse.

2. Not sure I like that. I'm all for making ranged a bit slower. But there is no way in hell a melee guy in armour should be able to keep up with a light archer both from a balance and realism pov in the long run. I think removing ladders would help. But yes, also give archers melee capabilities. Right now they don't really have any, regardless of what build you take unless you pick up stuff off the battlefield and then you'll be hammered into the ground.

[Kafein]

Also, I assume all arguments are based off ONE infantry vs ONE archer, after that is doesnt matter what class you are, 2v1 you are going to die unless the 2 are utter noobs.

Except this is flat out false.

2 melee vs 1 melee ? The solo guy has good chances. Even 10 melee vs 1 melee can end up with the lone guy winning, with all the 10 enemies being average players with lvl 30 chars. It's even worse with full cav round ends (a very rare occurence, cav usually die before the round ends). One cav can defeat 20 other cav as the allies can't help much. A little distraction maybe, but cav vs cav is essentially a "one at a time" type of combat. With a little bit of skill, you can avoid being blocked by enemy horses for a very long time.

2 archers vs 1 melee ? The melee, with or without shield, dies. Archers don't get in the way of each other and the benefits of outnumbering the enemy are greater than with any other class.

[Overdriven]

2 archers vs 1 melee ? The melee, with or without shield, dies. Archers don't get in the way of each other and the benefits of outnumbering the enemy are greater than with any other class.

That much is true. Even if they have a shield all you have to do is circle them and it's instant death. A fav tactic of horse archers if there's 2 in a team.

[Elmokki]

If you want to keep current archer dps more or less intact, at least make shooting bows slower (and increase damage in compensation)

The reason I don't categorically hate crossbows is that they don't spam bolts (or if they do it's a weak crossbow) and if they run away they at least won't shoot while doing that.

The reason I hate most archers is that they shoot those very deadly arrows at a very rapid pace making approaching them even from like 10 meters hugely dangerous due to each hit slowing you down (or holding shield up slowing you down, if not as much) and most of them just run away when you are close enough.

[karasu]

@ Karasu: Only pick up arrows of your own type: If you got bodkins, any bodkins (any level of 'looming) will get you an arrow without a bug, but any other type will mess your slots up: I think this is fine, dont be greedy, stick to arrows you got.

Sadly it doesn't work that way, several times happened to me to pick up other arrows of the same type and same loom level, and I got 0 arrows on both or 1 quiver.

It's not a matter of being greedy, it's a matter of using the brain if you get more chances to win.

[Kato]

2 very easy implementable solution for decrease rage and whine about archery, was bring in many times already.

1. remove ladders from battle server
2. balance by class too, so both team have approximately same amount of archers and cav

[BlindGuy]

Sadly it doesn't work that way, several times happened to me to pick up other arrows of the same type and same loom level, and I got 0 arrows on both or 1 quiver.

It's not a matter of being greedy, it's a matter of using the brain if you get more chances to win.

Hmmm, weird, I never had a problem grabbing bodkins (I always used bodkins) at any point, but then I usually wouldnt grab any that werent my ones I missed with (yes Im that anal I track where they go most times) untill I had hit 0. I take it all back if that doesnt work for you, I guess me all get weird results with the slot system.

2 melee vs 1 melee ? The solo guy has good chances.

NO. 2 melee who arent hungry hippos can easily dispose of 1 enemy: 2 hungry hippos can easily die to 1 enemy: I stated, decent players. A decent player will help his teammate, they will back the guy up untill he has nowhere to go, then they will attack with different swings: no way to block 2 directions, your dead. Im not interested in how noobs rush into each others way in a massive teamhitting orgy. Thats not a gank, its just wank.