Poll

Why don't you enjoy playing on EU 1 ?

Lots of ranged makes the game unplayable ...
Lots of cav charging from everywhere makes the game unplayable...
Lots of melee attacking from everywhere makes the game unplayable (Explain how please)
I think EU_1 is fine . I like how it is.
Main problem is ladders to roofs , the amount of ranged is fine.
I don't know about gameplay but with this upkeep , i can't play...

Author Topic: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?  (Read 22534 times)

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Offline Moncho

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2011, 01:35:04 pm »
0
I like how I managed to redirect some of the archer hate towards xbows.

Two ideas I had to make turn and run less attractive for ranged would be

1)
Allowing ammo (arrows&bolts) only in the 3rd and 4th item slot. With that taking 3 ammo stacks is impossible and people would always have a spare slot for a melee weapon. It would fit the historical context too because I doubt that there were any ranged troops without a fallback melee weapon. Disadvantage some fellow dev brought up is that this reduces equipment layout choices. Obvious advantage is that it reduces the overall ammo count and the need for an archer to turn and run if he has no melee weapon.

2)
I'll ask cmp for the Native sprint mode code. Maybe we can make it so that someone with a bow or crossbow in the inventory has a slower sprint mode than a melee guy. With that even a lighter armored ranger can't simply run away, turn, shoot and run again. The melee guy would catch him quickly.

This might work for the hornbowmen, but for the archers with 2 slot bows (to which i belong), number 1 will not make a difference at all (the bow takes slots 1 and 2!). Also, why cant I just have my longbow and a long dagger? Thats my build, I like to have high agi and rush in and out of range while facestabbing people (if i cannot run).
About 2), why would a guy with a huge axe (or pole, or shield and 1h, etc) run faster than a guy with a piece of wood with a string to it?
Annoyed at archers running? Get some stones/throwing knives!
Annoyed at getting hit by arrows? Use a shield, it is not perfect, but it will protect you (at least it will force the archer to have to avoid it thus making him lose time).
About 3) by koyama, then there would be a huge unbalance between weapon looms and arrow looms, which would make it so much better to loom arrows, also wrt repair costs, it would need rebalancing, but i think it has potential

Offline Vibe

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2011, 01:36:27 pm »
0
Dedicated archers will always pick more arrows from ground when they run out, just make it work ok (not like nowdays when you pick one, you lose all. Buggy as hell). Like this... they need to come down from roof at some point.

Win-Win.

It's incredible how biased you are. Archers have way enough arrows to stay on roof for most of the round. Unless you actually want archers to have 15-20 arrows.

Offline HarunYahya

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2011, 01:40:13 pm »
0
I need your opinions about "2 slot quivers" suggestion.
Please share your ideas.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,21623.msg311030.html#new

Offline Kafein

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2011, 01:42:54 pm »
0
2)
I'll ask cmp for the Native sprint mode code. Maybe we can make it so that someone with a bow or crossbow in the inventory has a slower sprint mode than a melee guy. With that even a lighter armored ranger can't simply run away, turn, shoot and run again. The melee guy would catch him quickly.


This sounds worth a try ;)

Offline HarunYahya

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2011, 01:45:53 pm »
0
This might work for the hornbowmen, but for the archers with 2 slot bows (to which i belong), number 1 will not make a difference at all (the bow takes slots 1 and 2!). Also, why cant I just have my longbow and a long dagger? Thats my build, I like to have high agi and rush in and out of range while facestabbing people (if i cannot run).
About 2), why would a guy with a huge axe (or pole, or shield and 1h, etc) run faster than a guy with a piece of wood with a string to it?
Annoyed at archers running? Get some stones/throwing knives!
Annoyed at getting hit by arrows? Use a shield, it is not perfect, but it will protect you (at least it will force the archer to have to avoid it thus making him lose time).
About 3) by koyama, then there would be a huge unbalance between weapon looms and arrow looms, which would make it so much better to loom arrows, also wrt repair costs, it would need rebalancing, but i think it has potential
I agree but archery and xbows are the only "classes" that has increasing damage potential by looming 2 items.
I mean if you use a 2h you can increase your damage by triple looming your weapon but for archery you get bonus damage by triple looming your weapon plus bonus damage by triple looming your arrows . This suggestion will only change the priority of looming order of dedicated archers.They'll just loom their arrows then bows nothing much maybe some tweaks to those stats needed to make it balanced.
Eventually that will help to decrease archer spam on servers without harming dedicated archers imo.

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #80 on: December 02, 2011, 01:48:11 pm »
+1
(click to show/hide)

Why is everyone SO upset over run and shoot archers. ITS SO EASY to disarm this tactic, just the same way you disarm backpeddlers: DONT FUCKING CHASE THEM! Just stand behind a tree/wall/teammate/horse/shield/rock/hill/castle/hut/mill/anything. If you dont chase them, they wont run. This will make ppl say "But how to kill then! Your stupid!" but in reality, it's the main tactic that WAS used by infantry to combat archers: Just hide. When they get bored of standing in an empty field they will come to look, and when they too close to escape, you jump out and bang. Dead archer. Chasing them is so stupid it makes my brain hurt that ppl like Paul are thinking of making chasing them more effective: CHASING ARCHERS is supposed to get you killed.

Ultimately, if you REALLY dont want to get shot, you can just make your hitboxes vanish in Warband anyway, by spamming your mouse while you feint spam: Unhitable by any ranged weapon: Its a glitch abuse but since it has never been adressed, I guess it qualifies as a feature. This works equally well in native and crpg. Anyone who says this isnt so has very limited experience of high end native players. They dont get shot, even with native lazergunbows.
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Offline Vibe

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2011, 01:52:16 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

Why is everyone SO upset over run and shoot archers. ITS SO EASY to disarm this tactic, just the same way you disarm backpeddlers: DONT FUCKING CHASE THEM! Just stand behind a tree/wall/teammate/horse/shield/rock/hill/castle/hut/mill/anything. If you dont chase them, they wont run. This will make ppl say "But how to kill then! Your stupid!" but in reality, it's the main tactic that WAS used by infantry to combat archers: Just hide. When they get bored of standing in an empty field they will come to look, and when they too close to escape, you jump out and bang. Dead archer. Chasing them is so stupid it makes my brain hurt that ppl like Paul are thinking of making chasing them more effective: CHASING ARCHERS is supposed to get you killed.

Ultimately, if you REALLY dont want to get shot, you can just make your hitboxes vanish in Warband anyway, by spamming your mouse while you feint spam: Unhitable by any ranged weapon: Its a glitch abuse but since it has never been adressed, I guess it qualifies as a feature. This works equally well in native and crpg. Anyone who says this isnt so has very limited experience of high end native players. They dont get shot, even with native lazergunbows.

Your post tells melee to kill archers by... not chasing them?

well lol

Offline HarunYahya

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2011, 01:52:31 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

Why is everyone SO upset over run and shoot archers. ITS SO EASY to disarm this tactic, just the same way you disarm backpeddlers: DONT FUCKING CHASE THEM! Just stand behind a tree/wall/teammate/horse/shield/rock/hill/castle/hut/mill/anything. If you dont chase them, they wont run. This will make ppl say "But how to kill then! Your stupid!" but in reality, it's the main tactic that WAS used by infantry to combat archers: Just hide. When they get bored of standing in an empty field they will come to look, and when they too close to escape, you jump out and bang. Dead archer. Chasing them is so stupid it makes my brain hurt that ppl like Paul are thinking of making chasing them more effective: CHASING ARCHERS is supposed to get you killed.

Ultimately, if you REALLY dont want to get shot, you can just make your hitboxes vanish in Warband anyway, by spamming your mouse while you feint spam: Unhitable by any ranged weapon: Its a glitch abuse but since it has never been adressed, I guess it qualifies as a feature. This works equally well in native and crpg. Anyone who says this isnt so has very limited experience of high end native players. They dont get shot, even with native lazergunbows.
You never play on EU_1 i guess =)
Infantry can't leave the tree and attack cuz if he does that he'll die.
Archer can't go closer to tree and try to shoot from closer place cuz he'll die.

So both of them wait till flags then boooom HEADSHOT.

Offline Kafein

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2011, 01:53:44 pm »
0
This will make ppl say "But how to kill then! Your stupid!" but in reality, it's the main tactic that WAS used by infantry to combat archers: Just hide. When they get bored of standing in an empty field they will come to look, and when they too close to escape, you jump out and bang.

You are clueless aren't you ?

While the inf is hiding, he's as good as dead. Hell, in the extremely unlikely case there is more than one archer, he is dead.

Not to mention that sometimes there isn't anything to hide behind, and that one archer can pin down as many inf as he likes if they think like that.

Offline karasu

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2011, 01:58:09 pm »
0
I like how I managed to redirect some of the archer hate towards xbows.

Two ideas I had to make turn and run less attractive for ranged would be

1)
Allowing ammo (arrows&bolts) only in the 3rd and 4th item slot. With that taking 3 ammo stacks is impossible and people would always have a spare slot for a melee weapon. It would fit the historical context too because I doubt that there were any ranged troops without a fallback melee weapon. Disadvantage some fellow dev brought up is that this reduces equipment layout choices. Obvious advantage is that it reduces the overall ammo count and the need for an archer to turn and run if he has no melee weapon.

2)
I'll ask cmp for the Native sprint mode code. Maybe we can make it so that someone with a bow or crossbow in the inventory has a slower sprint mode than a melee guy. With that even a lighter armored ranger can't simply run away, turn, shoot and run again. The melee guy would catch him quickly.


Pretty cool ideas, but with the 1st one are you taking into account the bugs on arrow pickings related to which position on the slots is which item? This is a terrible bug (or feature to some) for every ranged user.

I've tried several different orders in the inventory, in some the quivers go empty, others it drops the bow, and in others it drops the melee weapon. Commented this with Tenne several times since we have the same play style, and we're still trying to find the "perfect" order and which items.

This situation led sometimes to some funny moments with people asking "wtf kold y r u dropin' your shit everytime you pick an arrow" which I could only answer with " ¯\(°_o)/¯ dunno lol" to resume the event.


Also, tl;dr the last posts I've made, I couldn't give a blatant fuck anymore about all the class fights and extremely biased comments by either players/admins/item balancers/devs (cause it exists and we all know it does, it's an humane reaction and comprehensible), simply by the single fact that I play this game by it's WHOLE, I change specc every single gen, I have alts for every possible build on this game and I try to understand at deep every of them, and when I talk, I talk out of personal experience not out of thin air, and I'm not afraid to speak my mind, which leads to the usual hatred from both players and devs.

So, play on, have fun, whatever.

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PS2: Leshma Xant looks like a ritardo with your stuff (even more than usual), specially using the cmp mask. I've already given the idea to change the model to honor cmp into this beauty
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Cheers, rage one.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 02:01:07 pm by karasu »

Offline bonekuukkeli

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2011, 01:59:43 pm »
0
It's incredible how biased you are. Archers have way enough arrows to stay on roof for most of the round. Unless you actually want archers to have 15-20 arrows.

Just read what dev suggested before commenting loads of crap out of your mouth. Less arrows for archers...

Offline HarunYahya

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2011, 02:06:15 pm »
0
Just read what dev suggested before commenting loads of crap out of your mouth. Less arrows for archers...
Tell me 1 archer that takes 3 quivers ? =)

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2011, 02:10:48 pm »
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Im on eu1 every day: I chase archers all day, cause I got a shield, and throwing weapons. I fucking love it when they run, I run faster, I throw things at them, and when they turn I shield up and keep coming. Thats the solution I pick. Againts multiple archers, its more difficult. But it's more difficult to fight multiple opponents of ANY type, not just archers:

But chasing them without a shield or anything to throw at them IS RETARDED: Just dont chase them. They are almost all kids anyway, who will get bored and come to try to sneak shots at you in your hiding place, just keep slipping back and back untill they have over committed, and rape them. But if you are last guy, againts 5 archers, your screwed: SO what? 95% of the time as last man vs 5 of ANYTHING your screwed, whether they spammitards, polestunners, steelshielders, 2handedheros, w/e, 5vs1 you are probs gonna die. I just dont get why everyone thinks melee should be able to run to ranged and kill: Melee are the smart players, with tricks and tactics to beating each opponent type they face: Running at rangers should NEVER be one of your tactics. MAKE them come to you, if they wait for flag, rush it, they have to fight or let you have it, if they try to shoot you off it, just spam mouse in circles and they cannot hit you...its that easy...ranged also only classtype that RUN OUT OF WEAPON: My sword never runs out of cuts, their bow WILL run out of ammo.

You guys all obsessed with changing the game, when you need to change the way you play it. I'll quote you the motto we used at work "Man up, or fuck off". I choose to man up, and adjust how I play to defeat them. Now unless they massively outnumber me, archers have to fuck off. They cannot kill me, they cannot run from me. I dont see the problem: Shot in the back while fighting someone else is no different to backstabbed while fighting someone else: Gank is Gank, once your dead its completely irrelevant wether the killer was stood 2 yards or 200 yards from you, backstab is backstab.

There are real problems with the mod, weapons with hitboxes that massively outreach their models, blockmeshes that dont match hitboxes, massive hybridisation advantages for xbows over everything else, cavalry sound needs fixing, bumpstabs with lance even tho its physically impossible, etc. Some my old friends wishing to be Legolas arent a problem. Address real issues. Dont change the game to fill holes in your playstyle.
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Offline bonekuukkeli

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2011, 02:10:55 pm »
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Tell me 1 archer that takes 3 quivers ? =)

Horse archers. Actually played one before my current gen.

And you still didn't read suggestion about reducing it to 1 quiver or so.

Offline Kafein

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Re: [POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?
« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2011, 02:20:55 pm »
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But chasing them without a shield or anything to throw at them IS RETARDED: Just dont chase them. They are almost all kids anyway, who will get bored and come to try to sneak shots at you in your hiding place, just keep slipping back and back untill they have over committed, and rape them.

MAKE them come to you, if they wait for flag, rush it, they have to fight or let you have it, if they try to shoot you off it, just spam mouse in circles and they cannot hit you...its that easy...ranged also only classtype that RUN OUT OF WEAPON: My sword never runs out of cuts, their bow WILL run out of ammo.

You are playing in your dreams aren't you ? Hiding only leads to dying or loosing when the MOTF flags spawn. There's no way around that. The archer goes to the flag and flees when you approach, if he didn't kill you after all this, he's level 10 or a terrible player.