The classes and the maintenance (upkeep discussion)

[Michael]

I think its pretty unfair that some guys can play with the top gear/ their fav gear all the time, while others having to use some shitty gear most of their playtime.

Since realism is not an argument in crpg, imho the price of items should be based on the threat they are to the enemy.

I am aware that other players would prefer other gear, but I now present some classes and the gear I (me personally) did best with. These are no fantasy builds, these are real builds and the gear I used is the gear those chars were most effective (in my hands):


Heavy Cavalry: Light Lance 1910 (gold), Long Spiked Club 3174, Black Armor 34239, Black Greaves 4629, Great Helmet 6723, Mamluk Horse 59986,
sum 110661


Archer: Leather Jerkin 669, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Nomad Bow 3156, Bodkin Arrows 4215, Bodkin Arrows 4215, Pickaxe 240
sum 12638


2h "Ninja": Leather Jacket 84, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Nodachi 10589
sum 10816


Polearm "Ninja": Leather Jacket 84, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Long Hafted Blade 4622
sum 4849


1h-shield: Leather Jacket 84, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Heater Shield 2712, Military Sickle 2468
sum 5407


(Light) Lancer: Light Lance 1910, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Heater Shield 2712, Khergit Lamellar Vest 3342, Long Hafted Blade 4622, Sarranid Horse 23982,     
sum 36711


Crossbowman/2hHybrid: Leather Jerkin 669, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Sniper Crossbow 17477, Steel Bolts 2136, Longsword 5123, Nordic Shield 1064,
sum 26612


With all those chars the same player (me, in that case) ends up with the same kill death ratio in the long run. Some builds need more time than others to become good, but when I compare them at level 30, its all the same. This will be same for most other players. For players that only ever have played archer, it might be a bit different, they might need some time to get used to melee, but I am talking about the long run anyway.

So I dont see why one build has only to pay the upkeep for 4849, and another for 110661, when the same player can bring the same result with both of them.


I dont know what the goal was of installing the upkeep system in the first place, but I remember chadz having said he didnt want to have an endgame all the time. If this is still the case, so why we dont see level 30 archers with hunting bow or at least without a greatsword or a polearm over the back?

I am not talking about realism this time, its just not okay that some people can play the mod ALL THE TIME with the very best gear, and others NEVER can play their favorite class, not once.

I dont like it, but I would be able to accept to ride my shitty Rouncey when at least the archers had to suffer a bit, too. Shared suffer, you know and so.

But not one happy all the time, others fucked all the time.

Also, compare archer and crossbowman, not fair neither. 

Or 2h and polearm "Ninja".

[Xant]

loloollolololoollo i am michael and i am derp

i give my example build of cavalry black armor and other expensive as hell stuff while my other example classes receive shitty gear
lololol

[Spurdospera]

Archer: Leather Jerkin 669, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Nomad Bow 3156, Bodkin Arrows 4215, Bodkin Arrows 4215, Pickaxe 240
sum 12638

Good luck trying to get kills from other than naked peasants.

[Mattressi]

So, you're point is that wearing the best armour in the mod and riding the second best horse in the mod should cost the same as wearing some of the worst armour (and no head gear!) in the mod? Or is your point that you suck at cav?

[Babelfish]

haha xD

+1 awesomebar for you michael! =D

[Memento_Mori]

This man is completely right why can a player who enjoys wearing peasant's armor and running around with a scythe play in the gear he favors 100% of the time whilst I cannot run around in the gear I love the most (full black armor with plated charger) even 50% of the time. makes no sense to me, anyways I'm out, hope they fix this.

[Ache]

HAHAHA. Best thread ever. Awesome work.
 

P.S.
Are you serious?
Read what you have written and think about it for a few seconds.
(Blackplate+Heavy Gauntlets+Plate Boots+Armet+Flameberge+Throwing Lances= less than 10.000 gold, everything else is blasphemy. )

[ThePoopy]

i agree with michael

ive also tested out a few different builds and have had almost same k/d on all of them, and some are really much cheaper than others

and his point is that some "classes" need to have 1 light gear and 1 heavy gear to switch betwean to not constantly loose money

while other "classes" can run around in same gear all the time and be as effective as the first is with heavy gear

[Michael]

loloollolololoollo i am michael and i am derp

Thats (perhaps) what you would love to be, but there can be only one me, and thats me, sorry about that.

i give my example build of cavalry black armor and other expensive as hell stuff

As I said, thats the gear I used. Replace the Black Armor, and take Coat of Plates instead, but thats the minimum for a non-shield heavy cavalry, otherwise they will 1 shoot you of your slow-mo horse in a second.

while my other example classes receive shitty gear

As I said, it was the gear I (ME PERSONALLY) did best with. The gear I played with BEFORE patch, when money didnt matter, and still would, if money didnt matter.

Heavy armor on foot doesnt work for me.

I think it was before your time, but my first generation usually used the Longsword or Flamberge and Padded Jack as "Armor", and I only switched to Black Armor and Great Axe when I wanted to rush into the enemy and spam a bit.

If you want to write something usefull, post the builds and the gear YOU are doing best with.

[Xant]

milanese plate
flamberge
sallet with visor
cased greaves
another flamberge
sniper xbow
steel bolts
heavy gauntlets

THIS IS LIKE 150K UPKEEP GODDAMMIT I DEMAND EQUALITY

[bruce]

FUUU archery is expensive, look:

Milanese Plate   31632
Milanese Sallet    8811
Gauntlets   8534
Cased Greaves   4627
German Poleaxe   10585
War Bow   9250
2 x Bodkin Arrows   4215

[Leesin]

Inb4lock

[Roan]

If you get the same k/d ratio with all of those builds I would suggest you play naked, seems like there's no difference between heavily armored and not armored for you? O.o
*facepalm*

[Michael]

Archer: Leather Jerkin 669, Khergit Leather Boots 143, Nomad Bow 3156, Bodkin Arrows 4215, Bodkin Arrows 4215, Pickaxe 240
sum 12638

Good luck trying to get kills from other than naked peasants.

If you were in charge in Fallens battles in Strategus that would explain why you got pwned all the time by Druzhina and their vassals.

Grind and give me a level 30 archer made after my secret advice with Nomad Bow and I kill all their archers for you.
Or at least bring a kill death ratio of 2, when the rest of your troops is totally incompetent.

When I play archer, then only for one reason, because I hate archers and love to kill them. I will never understand why some archers want to shoot heavy armored shielders like the Searaiders.

I shoot archers. And I kill many of them.

When I have the time I shoot unarmored horses, too.

I dont need more than 3 power draw. 4 perhaps, and Khergit Bow, but doesnt make a difference, so I would stick with Nomad to save your money.

[Tristan]

I hate doing this... responding seriously to a troll thread. I am doomed.

However, and let me start out by saying that you really suck a presenting your case Michael, a part of your idea does hold merit.

I would however phrase it differently, and all in all avoid the cavalry comparison as they are a very influencing factor in team wins.

My point is: Ranged vs. Melee, ranged is far cheaper in equipment, while retaining the same effectiveness on your team (I am not talking about K:D as that is just epeen talk). First and foremost melee's in general pay for more more armor, while not increasing their effectiveness significalntly for their team with the increasing prices.

The same goes for internal balance in melee class, where some class needs more equipment to reach an effect.