Post Patch balance issues. (TLTR: Nerf Archers,check Armour Weights)

[Thomek]

Here goes rage:

Let's look at the easy one first,

Nerf Archers.

1st Argument is that they are too many, and their numbers need to be kept down, or ruin gameplay as we know it. If not we become native which is an fps with some melee sugar.
2nd Argument is that they are now insanely powerful. They haven't done so much damage since oct last year? Long time ago.. Today I got 1 shotted in my triple loomed lamellar with double loomed lamellar gloves. (53 hp) It was by a MW longbow with MW arrows, but still.  My STR STF char loose 70% or more HP with chainmail. Horses get`s one shotted too. Dunno whats going on here.. For sure the armour nerfs became a nice + for Archers and ranged. I do agree that the loomed vs non-loomed armour gap should go down to help new players, but look at arrowdamage. please.


Armor Weights,
or how it influences run speed and wpf
Right now, more armor has very few disadvantages. The increase in run speed happens mostly at the extreme lower end (at least it feels like that) and the advantage in speed quickly dissapate as you go into medium armour. The speed difference u get between medium and very heavy is almost negligible. Possibly because weapon weights are a near constant. I would see a rebalancing of how much the armours weigh, perhaps in stead of following the armour value proportionally, it could be offset by cost. I fear that we are moving quickly towards a heavy armour game, where there's no room for alternative playstyles or new players without the cash, skills and looms to have it themselves.

Cav..
Bonus Whine!
Pre-patch cav was balanced so it wouldn't often one shot medium armour without couching. Since armour values are down, this ability is back with a vengeance. Being one shot is lame, and not good for gameplay. Everyone deserve a chance! I think the lances needs to loose some dmg, and I dream about lances being less effective without any speed bonus. A horse at full speed should deal awesome damage, but not poking around at slow speeds. Example, tonight mostly good players were on EU1. 90% knows how to block decently, none are easy kills. Still Oberyn and Leed rake in insane scores out of proportion to all the other good players. I think cav needs to loose their consistent one shot ability, unless couching and cooperating. Cav is an awesome teamplay class, but very few does it, because it`s simply not necessary.

[a_bear_irl]

i disagree on armor, there is a very noticeable difference between heavy and light armor, i'd say light-medium is better for dueling than heavy. the armor-"race" (that is, increasing amounts of armor) IMO is driven by the large numbers of twohanders and archers and by the general population increase (at least on NA). your standard hornbow+bodkin archer can twoshot a STR build in medium armor so many people up-armor to combat it, same deal with 2h but at least there there is a reason to keep weight down so you can dance around. IMO fix archers and you'll see armor levels go down

the recent nerf to armor makes no sense anyway, it wasn't an issue in melee and it's a buff to archers (who needed a nerf anyway)

[Thomek]

was a nerf to armour looms no?

I agree it needed a nerf, must have been a nightmare for new players to meet the STR + loomed armour monsters.

[Lech]

It was also nerf to heraldic mail armors, all of them are unplayable at the moment (as you can do just as good with 9.5 that offer 38/12). The loom nerf was totally justified, but something need to be done with cavalry and archers to make the game enjoyable again.

And buff my team, it sucks.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

please dont rate cav on leed and oberyn, they are good cavs that have been cav so long. its like saying archery is op cuz jambi rocks and 2hd is op cuz phyrex is good.
And teamplay...same thing goes for archers...

[Dezilagel]

please dont rate cav on leed and oberyn, they are good cavs that have been cav so long. its like saying archery is op cuz jambi rocks and 2hd is op cuz phyrex is good.
And teamplay...same thing goes for archers...

OBERYN AND lEED ARE BOTH VERY GOOD PLAYERS, BUT THEY ARE NOT *AMAZING*.

BUT THEN, CAV WILL ALWAYS GET A FUCKLOAD OF KILLS DUE TO THEIR MECHANICS (HIGH DAMAGE + MOBILITY) AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO CHANGE THAT.

[Vibe]

Completely agree on armor weight and it's penalties. High armor is the best possible choice in this mod. I'm still lightning fast when I use my Plate Armor and it shouldn't be like this.

[OttomanSniper]

Archers not strong u are ninja. Stop crying. Its already nerfed 12 times.

Pls learn game, u cant win game with nerfs, archery already most bad class. Or give free respec after nerfs.

Archery not balanced...

All scores from game, and ratios from best players. (After last patch)

Cav ratio : 40-0 , 45-2, 52-1

Two hand ratio : 30-0, 32-3, 41-1

Shield ratio : 24-0, 24-5, 32-2

Archer ratio : 10-6, 15-7, 19-6

Horse archer ratio : 7-2, 10-6, 13-0

I collect  build - ratio some times, best balance method is use this ratio.

Archery not funny, its useless build.

Edit : Ratio : 1) Average 2) Good 3) Best

Edit :

Horses get`s one shotted too.

What ? Im power archer and stumpter horse 2 shot from head, 2-3 shot from body - rouncey 2 shot forom head 3-4 shot from body - steppe 2 shot from head 2-3 shot from body = desert horse - courser 2 shot from head 4 shot from body - destrier 3 shot from head 5-6 shot from body. U can test me on duel server.

[Paul]

With 61 body armor against double triple loomed archery equip and a 10 PD longbow archer(cripple archer), you can receive point blank a minimum damage of 25, average of 39 and maximum damage of 57 with not taking wpf reduction into account. You got unlucky.
u mad?


All this 10 PD, 10 athletic, 10 WM archers with their hornlongbows break the game.

[Frankysan]

Here goes rage:

Let's look at the easy one first,

Nerf Archers.

1st Argument is that they are too many, and their numbers need to be kept down, or ruin gameplay as we know it. If not we become native which is an fps with some melee sugar.
2nd Argument is that they are now insanely powerful. They haven't done so much damage since oct last year? Long time ago.. Today I got 1 shotted in my triple loomed lamellar with double loomed lamellar gloves. (53 hp) It was by a MW longbow with MW arrows, but still.  My STR STF char loose 70% or more HP with chainmail. Horses get`s one shotted too. Dunno whats going on here.. For sure the armour nerfs became a nice + for Archers and ranged. I do agree that the loomed vs non-loomed armour gap should go down to help new players, but look at arrowdamage. please.


Armor Weights,
or how it influences run speed and wpf
Right now, more armor has very few disadvantages. The increase in run speed happens mostly at the extreme lower end (at least it feels like that) and the advantage in speed quickly dissapate as you go into medium armour. The speed difference u get between medium and very heavy is almost negligible. Possibly because weapon weights are a near constant. I would see a rebalancing of how much the armours weigh, perhaps in stead of following the armour value proportionally, it could be offset by cost. I fear that we are moving quickly towards a heavy armour game, where there's no room for alternative playstyles or new players without the cash, skills and looms to have it themselves.

Cav..
Bonus Whine!
Pre-patch cav was balanced so it wouldn't often one shot medium armour without couching. Since armour values are down, this ability is back with a vengeance. Being one shot is lame, and not good for gameplay. Everyone deserve a chance! I think the lances needs to loose some dmg, and I dream about lances being less effective without any speed bonus. A horse at full speed should deal awesome damage, but not poking around at slow speeds. Example, tonight mostly good players were on EU1. 90% knows how to block decently, none are easy kills. Still Oberyn and Leed rake in insane scores out of proportion to all the other good players. I think cav needs to loose their consistent one shot ability, unless couching and cooperating. Cav is an awesome teamplay class, but very few does it, because it`s simply not necessary.

YES YES YES AND YES
i hope someone with brain read this

[Xant]

i hope not

[Overdriven]

Still Oberyn and Leed rake in insane scores out of proportion to all the other good players.

Lol balancing by Oberyn and Leed. Dumb idea.

[Mala]

i disagree on armor, there is a very noticeable difference between heavy and light armor,...

Well, i would not call it a noticable difference.
I have made some running tests on the duell server, a longer track along the wall and a short track between the stonegate.

With atlethics 7 and my light armour setup (8.5 stones) i have needed  on average 32.85 sec for the long distance and 1.74 sec for the shorter one (1.94 sec with side steps).
The same with my heavy armour (37.5 stones) i have needed on average 36.34 sec for the long track and 1.93 sec for the short one (2.15 sec with side steps).

So with light armour, four times lighter gear and 2.5 less armour value i gain a "few" milliseconds faster movement speed.

[Vibe]

Well, i would not call it a noticable difference.
I have made some running tests on the duell server, a longer track along the wall and a short track between the stonegate.

With atlethics 7 and my light armour setup (8.5 stones) i have needed  on average 32.85 sec for the long distance and 1.74 sec for the shorter one (1.94 sec with side steps).
The same with my heavy armour (37.5 stones) i have needed on average 36.34 sec for the long track and 1.93 sec for the short one (2.15 sec with side steps).

So with light armour, four times lighter gear and 2.5 less armour value i gain a "few" milliseconds faster movement speed.

Nice, this is what I was talking about.

[dodnet]

Its the same problem with heavy cav: It shouldn't be able for armored horses to outrun non armoured ones.