This is pre-patch .261, so currently outdated (IE archers may deal a little less damage on average)New Edit:
But (and I extend this to anyone who's interested in helping out further) the tests should be pretty easy to recreate if you want to do this independently. Just post in this thread or send me a PM and I can add new info to help get a better picture on real figures.
1) Tell me your build and equipment & make sure you use bodkin arrows (or don't actually, it would be interesting to see how much bodkins affect archery, which might give people an idea about how archery was NOT fine without any pierce)
2) Make sure you keep track of the HP & body (chest + glove) armor of your victims. If possible take a handful of tests with people to allow outliers to stand out.
3) Try to emulate similar distance shots based on my pictures in the OP.
4) (optional) Mix it up! If you want to try point blank & very long distance shots that would be interesting new data I'd welcome. Similarly, perhaps playing with speed bonus would be fun, maybe try to have a player move towards the archer (getting hit by the arrow ideally at one of the 'distance' markers I've included).
My one request is please try to document these variables as much as possible. If I get something like "I 2 shot a tin can at long distance with my long bow and bodkins" I'm not considering that proof: give me real numbers and ideally some good test data.
Highest "priority" data right now are IMO high PD archers that are using longbows or rus bows. I would also be interested in hearing about how many arrows missed their targets during this test considering the lower accuracy of these builds
WARNING! THIS POST IS FUCKING LONG
There are a lot of archery threads around right now.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things about archery.
Archery is EZ-mode.
Archery is under-powered.
Archery is broken because of bodkins.
Archery kills in 2-3 hits.
Archers should avoid firing into melee.
Archers should fire into melee.
Archery is over powered.
Archery is for pussies.
Everyone has something to say about archery, but there never seems to be enough hard evidence.
I'm hoping that I can at least provide some context with this thread, so at the very least we can frame the archer whine-fest with a semblance of truth.
What I did:
I spent some time during the course of a few days to keep track of the amount of hits it took me to kill a wide assortment of
poor suckers helpful test subjects, using a controlled distance while recording what their strength, ironflesh, and total body armor (chest + gloves) were. I would kill each subject 1-3 times from short, medium, and long range. In the end I had roughly 25 kills from each range, or about 75 individual tests in all. Still plenty of room for variation, but enough tests that the findings should hold up fairly well.
The Facts of the Experiment:
My Build: At the time of the test my build was 17/21. I had 5 Power Draw, and 163 archery wpf. I had an effective armor weight of 5, so a negligible decrease in effective weapon proficiency.
My Equipment: I used a Masterworked Horn Bow (27 cut) and Masterworked Bodkins (4 pierce) for a raw 31 pierce damage. This is 1 more pierce than a vanilla Rus Bow and vanilla Bodkins, and 1 less pierce than a vanilla Long Bow and vanilla Bodkins. Therefore please note that my damage is probably around the mid range for archers who use Bodkins at this time (more powerful than most non-loomed bows, but a bit less powerful than the heirloomed 2-slot archers out there).
My Distance Interpretation: I told test subjects to stand by the dead tree centered in the pictures below (the one with bodies all around it; I affectionately refer to it now as "the murder tree"), and I would target body shots from the location you see me take my screenshots from. I know that these distances are arbitrary, but in the heat of battle I consider these to be rough guidelines of what constitutes practical 'short, medium, and long' shots.
My Findings:
Against Targets With 80+ HP:Most hits to kill:
9 (Target: 80 hp, 72 body armor. Long distance shots)
Least hits to kill:
4 (Target: 87 hp, 54 body armor AND 85 hp 71 body armor. Occurred on short & mid distance shots)
Average hits to kill from short range:
5.3 (out of 9 total tests)
Average hits to kill from medium range:
5.5 (out of 8 total tests)
Average hits to kill from long range:
6.125 (out of 8 total tests)
Against Targets with 64-76 HP: Most hits to kill:
7 (Target: 76 hp, 68 body armor. Long distance shots)
Least hits to kill:
3 (Target: 65 hp, 52 body armor. Short distance shots)
Average hits to kill from short range:
4.08 (out of 12 total tests)
Average hits to kill from medium range:
4 (out of 12 total tests)
Average hits to kill from long range:
4.25 (out of 12 total tests)
Against Targets with 62 or less HP: Note: A level 1 peasant was included in this round which may lower average hits to kill numbers slightly
Most hits to kill:
3 (Target: 55 hp, 46 body armor. Long distance shots)
Least hits to kill:
1 (Target: 38 hp, 9 body armor. Any distance shots)
Average hits to kill from short range:
1.57 (out of 7 total tests)
Average hits to kill from medium range:
1.4 (out of 5 total tests)
Average hits to kill from long range:
1.6 (out of 5 total tests)
(light armor tests need more work; not enough tests and peasant testing threw numbers. Without the peasant included tests would average 2 hits for short and medium range, 2.5 for long)
My Conclusions:
More testing will need to be done now that I have 6 power draw. But ultimately I don't think that bodkins are quite as overpowered as people seem to say regarding the heavy armored tincans.
Bodkins will kill tin cans in about 5 or 6 hits on the average.
Bodkins will kill mid-heavy troops in about 4 hits on the average.
Bodkins will kill lighter troops in about 2-3 hits on the average.Keep in mind there are going to be a lot of archers that use non heirloomed bows, or use cut type arrows, and in those cases their average hit-to-kill numbers will probably be from 1 to many hits higher on the average (esp. when dealing with tin cans). Similarly there will be heirloomed heavy power draw longbowmen who will probably bring the average hits to kill number down by 1 max (so maybe 4-5 for tin cans, 3 for mid-heavy, 2 for lighter).
Other hunches; general things I found interesting:-hp mattered more than armor for survival
-distance didn't seem to make AS large a difference as I originally thought. Perhaps I wasn't far enough away on my 'long' tests
-If you are a standard infantry type with decent (50 ish) body armor you'll likely survive 4 hits from archers in general. It takes quite a bit of strength and armor to reliably survive 5 or more, so it probably isn't worth it.
-board shield w/ 600 hp survived 20 arrows. Low armor, but I did about 30 damage a shot. Shields rule basically for ranged (duh)
I'll see if I can update more when I have time.
E: I almost forgot: Thanks to everyone who gave a bit of time FOR SCIENCE!
Credits to test subjects:
Sageroth
Jeff
Captain_Insano_WCO
Passion
Assassino_Extremo
Sedurut
Wolfgang
Blade
Voester
Morr
Gzack
Tom_Cruise
Ninja_blood
Wintersong
Ninja_djnipsy
Grandpa Joe Has altheimers (thanks for skewing the results you peasant jerk!)
