Author Topic: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth  (Read 13440 times)

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Offline Adamar

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 11:10:54 am »
0
oh and yes i know from hours and hours of waisting my life away in this game that archers do actually top the scoreboards to.

On ocasion even I do, if most of my foes are noobs of peasants. The facts remain however, just go to crpg1 and see for yourselfs. It would be interesting if the devs here had a function to compare classes and kill counts in the crpg database. And you dont need to tell me that crpg is realistic(althought the devs strive to make it so), most players are shieldless conan wannabes running around the field. Some with arrows sticking out of their chests like it doesn't make a difference, yet still complaining about archery...

How do you think any archer feels when most shots are misses, and when they hit anyting its rarely a kill?

edit: Being shot is annoying, though that shouldn't be a reason for archery to be nerfed
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 11:16:08 am by Adamar »

Offline Leshma

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 11:14:27 am »
0
Who are you and on which server you play?

Quote
How do you think any archer feels when most shots are misses, and when they hit anyting its rarely a kill?

A little bit better than a 2H dude, same level of knowledge who decided to approach me on his own just to find out that I can block most of his attacks and even when I make mistake he hits me in the body with his sword which is about 8-15% HP taken from me... on the other hand that one archer hit is about 20-25% HP taken from me and he's still far away and keep running :wink:
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 11:17:57 am by Leshma »

Offline Adamar

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 11:25:22 am »
0
Who are you and on which server you play?

At the moment Im that bald annoying little whiner called Ulmar, and I stay away from the larger servers. Its mostly crpg4, pecores, nordsmen,... for me.

When you say that a good archer can be a good blocker in melee, you're implying that we can actualy stand up to the melee fighters, when we have only a few wp points there and crap melee weapons.

Offline Digglez

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 11:31:29 am »
0
Good thread, but as said 7-9 PD Rus/longbow users are what's really causing the rage on the servers atm.

actually no, its the rapid fire high WPF archers that rip people a new one.  They are fast enough to kite you forever and can continue shooting at the drop of a hat, unlike xbows that you cant reload if you chase after them.  It used to take them 5+ shots to take down medium infantry, now they can kill you with as little as 2 shots or even 1 headshot

Now say 3 enemy hornbow archers that used to be a moderate threat to medium infantry are now a death sentence because all their shots are going thru your paper mache armor.

Offline IR_Kuoin

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 11:35:45 am »
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Most archers aren't OP only the ones with full mw is, and unexperienced archers are realy easy to dodge, especally if your agi is high
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Offline karasu

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2011, 11:39:55 am »
+2
People forget that this is a War simulator. Not a God Complex simulator. You're expected to kill and die. If you're getting killed too much by a certain class, adapt. I don't see Cooties (p.e.) complaining about it, and he still tops scores constantly while being a Boromir, with a shield on his back.

Wars were won with tactics, shieldwalls, ranged waves, timed cavalry support, and engineered equipment. Not by Boromirs.

While being an archer in this mod, specially now, you're already gimped by the simple fact that the jump shooting was removed, but the jump swinging is still here, even though no one on his perfect mind would jump and swing heavy metal weaponry to try and hit something, this isn't Hollywood. And this "feature" was a great help against cav specially.

Also add the fact that a simple hit from an arbalest/lance/2hCav/1hCav/poleaxes/2handers is enough to kill a dedicated archer.

Sure they don't wear expensive armor and expensive lightsabers, but if you keep in mind the ultimate truth that 95% of the time, when a round ends the bodkin stacks are repair (350+ each), adding a bow for almost 700, and a side weapon if you have a build like that (like mine, and tenne p.e.) adding more 500+, and still having in mind how squishy an archer is even paying hard for it, you might start seeing things differently.

Before whining, put yourself in a Neutral position, and reflect about every single fact weighting in the final formula.


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Offline rufio

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2011, 11:43:46 am »
0
Rufio, what do you think is the average k/d-ratio of a footarcher and a foot 2h guy? Both above level > 25. The abominable archer must surely be at least on par or more likely be above the meager melee man, right?

paul im sick of ur and eny others k\d individualism remarks being brought so smirk, yes i know archers dont have high k/d, but for me this game should be ballanced to teamplay, probably something you rareley do , ur a number cruncher, a statistics man. and thats all fine, but dont start shoving your statistics taken from random matches and set test inviorments into our faces.
the fact is movement is slow in this game, so ranged whatever damage will always be op. there is bareley cover in most maps, shieldwalls bareley work as cover while advancing. and it is when you start coordinating the classes together that you realise that archery / throwing is op. and yes i do so. you know what i do when we do some nice synergy play? i protect my fuckin archers, and that fuckin wins me the matches, because next to them stunning people and picking off targets together, they fuckin kill shit from RANGE. and if they dont kill they will have wounded people so significalty that i can 1 shot them. and it is form this experience that i conclude that i find archery op , not because in pug rounds i get killed by them and take huge damage, no because that for me when i keep my archers alive it feels close to cheating. i want volley shots back , u know that melee get showered by 3/4 waves of arrows , that dont do immence ammounts off damage before they then ingage into the melee fight.  as it currently is and prove me wrong  if u can,  a shield wall of throwers and archers behind them will OWN eny other setup against them, like really OOOOWWWWWNNNN.


oh ye im a 1handed shielder cav with greatlance for all people with theyr borimir remarks out there.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 11:48:31 am by rufio »
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Offline Slamz

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2011, 11:53:03 am »
0
Another good test would be to try and compare accuracy.  Have a PD 5 Horn Bow user and a PD 7 Longbow user both shoot at a shielder from "long range" and compare hit rates.  Give them both 5 shots to zero in on the target (target does not move) and then have then both fire 20 more arrows and compare the miss rate.

I think what we'd find is that while high PD archers can kill in 2-3 "hits", it's actually 5-7 "shots", purely due to the inherent inaccuracy of archery.  Doesn't matter if the archer himself is 100% dead accurate -- the arrows themselves are not, especially over modest distances.



I think the REAL problem is that people create builds like:
30/9
10 IF
10 PS
2 Athletics
3 WM
130 2H wpf
0 ability to do anything about ranged

...and then they complain about ranged.

It's like a 1H shielder running around with a warhammer in an open field and complaining about cavalry.  Maybe you should... I dunno... get something to counter your nemesis?

"But I don't wanna adapt!  Wanna make single minded build and pwn everything with it!"
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Offline Arrowblood

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2011, 11:59:16 am »
-2
ill say nothing to archery whine....

Offline Xant

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2011, 12:09:25 pm »
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ill say nothing to archery whine....

Duly noted, good sir.
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Offline Liveon

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2011, 12:18:25 pm »
0
I think the REAL problem is that people create builds like:
30/9
10 IF
10 PS
2 Athletics
3 WM
130 2H wpf
0 ability to do anything about ranged

...and then they complain about ranged.

Error, correct power build(for 30lvl):

Strength: 30
Agility: 9
Hit points: 85
Skills to attributes: 8

Ironflesh: 10
Power Strike: 10
Weapon Master: 3
Athletics:0

Two Handed/Pole: 130 wpf


« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 12:19:29 pm by Liveon »

Offline Slamz

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2011, 12:39:43 pm »
0
Athletics:0
Even better!

Nothing says "take your time aiming, I won't be there anytime soon" like 0 athletics.
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Offline Mihilist

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2011, 01:16:10 pm »
0
I think the REAL problem is that people create builds like:
30/9
10 IF
10 PS
2 Athletics
3 WM
130 2H wpf
0 ability to do anything about ranged

...and then they complain about ranged.

It's like a 1H shielder running around with a warhammer in an open field and complaining about cavalry.  Maybe you should... I dunno... get something to counter your nemesis?

"But I don't wanna adapt!  Wanna make single minded build and pwn everything with it!"

Archery is fine -- 2handers/poles need to grow a pair.

Offline rufio

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2011, 01:54:03 pm »
-2
fuck archery
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Offline Adamar

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Re: Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2011, 02:04:11 pm »
0
Yeah, fucking archers!