Steel Pick (continued discussion)

[Kherr]

First, we should have to calculate median of k/d ratio among lvl 30. players who use pick over other 1h weapons. Then we would have to worry about sample size.

You are right.

But at the moment I simple look around and I dont see a lot of steel picks. I dont fight very often against another steel pick user.
An example would be the sword of cookies. A few weeks ago a lot of people used it cause of its effectiveness. Clear sign of overpowerment. The last patches changed that.

[UrLukur]

You are right.

But at the moment I simple look around and I dont see a lot of steel picks. I dont fight very often against another steel pick user.
An example would be the sword of cookies. A few weeks ago a lot of people used it cause of its effectiveness. Clear sign of overpowerment. The last patches changed that.

Still people use it a lot, as it's still extremely useful. I see some DRZ and RuConquista guys with picks, they do just fine, topping scoreboard from time to time.

[Engine]

About me:
My primary weapon has pretty much always been a pick. I used to use a Military pick, then the Steel Pick made it obsolete so I switched to it. Currently it's heirloomed once. I consider myself very familiar with picks.

It's a great 1h, BUT you really need to learn how to address the length disadvantage. Unquestionably and frequently I miss out on kills because I'm just out of range. It really is a severe detriment, and I think it's HILARIOUS to hear complaints from 2h/pole users.

1. Why are 3x heirlooms being being discussed? I frequently see Masterwork German Swords, Deadly awlpikes, Masterwork becs etc... the same longtime favorites people have always used. Post-patch I have not ONCE seen another heirloomed pick on the field but mine. Not ONCE. If it were OP you'd see more.

2. There is far less heavy armor running around. The pick, as an anti-tincan weapon, is subsequently less effective on today's battlefield.

3. It's a 1h, that's insanely short, and in tradeoff only does only a point or two more than an espada or side sword. It doesn't have knockdown or anti-shield bonus. What's the problem?

[rustyspoon]

I used to use the steel pick a lot on my dedicated 1 hander. If you're a good player, you can kill average players left and right with it. The problem is when you run into a skilled player. That's why I switched to an italian sword. The steel pick just doesn't have the versatility of a long sword.

Sure the pick does good damage against armor and has decent speed, but it has a short reach and you can only attack from 3 directions. That in and of itself is a big balancing factor. You have to be practically on top of someone to hit them which makes it even harder to circle around them.

Steel pick isn't OP at all. Now if you mentioned the side sword, I MIGHT agree with you.

[Noble Crassius]

Yep.  Used the warhammer too.  I'm not saying either weapon OP generally - just that the pick is either under-priced or over-powered for its price.

Included some views of your from last topic which it seems you reevaluated from this statement - if all your asking is for a price adjustment then sure I'll roll with that.

[Engine]

Errrr... The Steel Pick costs 366g to repair, iirc. The Long Espada costs about 400g.

Are you saying the Steel Pick is better?

Really?

[Noble Crassius]

Yes I don't really liek the long espeda myself *shrug* matter of preference. Do I think price needs to be adjusted for the pick to be "balanced"? No. price can't balance out anything. I just agree with it because if it makes these whiners happy why not? a +1000gmax (anything above is over-kill) on price won't effect me using it no way no how.

Do I think steel pick is imbalanced? No not particularity but it is edging.

[Spawny]

There's a very easy counter to pick users:

ANY crushthrough weapon wielded by someone with the PS to crushthrough regularly AND a sense of timing.

That's the main reason I switched from using my steel pick to a side sword. When someone has an overhead chambered with a great maul, you have to rely on footwork to stay alive with a pick. You can't outrange the maul and when the guy has proper timing, he will always hit you before you can strike him.
Once he missed his first attack, he's in trouble though.
With a side sword, you have this nifty thrust attack. It's really helpfull to kill people with overheads chambered. It's also faster than a steel pick, about 50% longer and deals just 1 damage less (even though it's cut damage, doesn't matter that much with the generally lower armourvalues).

[Dexxtaa]

1. Why are 3x heirlooms being being discussed? I frequently see Masterwork German Swords, Deadly awlpikes, Masterwork becs etc... the same longtime favorites people have always used. Post-patch I have not ONCE seen another heirloomed pick on the field but mine. Not ONCE. If it were OP you'd see more.

Dawg, I just wanted my horsekiller back. I never wanted it to be more awesome that it already was.

[Rhaelys]

There's a very easy counter to pick users:

ANY crushthrough weapon wielded by someone with the PS to crushthrough regularly AND a sense of timing.

That's the main reason I switched from using my steel pick to a side sword. When someone has an overhead chambered with a great maul, you have to rely on footwork to stay alive with a pick. You can't outrange the maul and when the guy has proper timing, he will always hit you before you can strike him.
Once he missed his first attack, he's in trouble though.
With a side sword, you have this nifty thrust attack. It's really helpfull to kill people with overheads chambered. It's also faster than a steel pick, about 50% longer and deals just 1 damage less (even though it's cut damage, doesn't matter that much with the generally lower armourvalues).

Actually, damage type matters quite a bit. Against medium armor (40) with 5 Power Strike and 150 WPF:

1) With a 32 cut weapon, you would, on average, do 20 damage
2) With a 33 pierce weapon, you would, on average, do 28.5 damage.

*Taken from Vargas' Melee Weapon Damage Calculator.

[Rextard]

Srsly, steel pick doesn't need to be nerfed. The 2h morningstar is the best example of why, that I can think of: (especially when you consider most pick users are shield users)

Steel Pick   6889   
weight 2.25
requirement 12
spd rtng 100
weapon length 64
swing damage 33, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce

Morningstar   3978   
weight 3.8
requirement 13
spd rtng 92
weapon length 82
swing damage 38, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

[Xant]

Unbalanced.

[Vexus]

When a 1h weapon which can be used with a shield has nearly same damage of a 2h and polearm pick then there is something wrong.

Plus yea like above unbalanced.

[Kherr]

Again... is there only a feeling "overpowered" or can someone proof it with numbers? Is there really a problem?

It's ok if you dont like it cause you were killed by it... but that is not enough to demand a nerf.

[Diomedes]

Again... is there only a feeling "overpowered" or can someone proof it with numbers? Is there really a problem?

It's ok if you dont like it cause you were killed by it... but that is not enough to demand a nerf.

Weapon stats have been posted multiple times.  Look at it compared to a morningstar.