Author Topic: LOLstab and phantom reach  (Read 6301 times)

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Offline Camaris

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2011, 06:18:22 pm »
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Player A using 2H sword.
Player B using polearm.

Distance between two players is 2 meters.

Player A: lolstab
Player B: block

Player A: feint feint slash
Player B: block

Player B: stab
Player A: you missed punk, you don't have lolstab lololol

Player B: slash, overhead, slash
Player A: block, block, block

Player A: lolstab
Player B: dead

Player A: Yo punk I'm skilled in melee don't waste my time yo.

Player A blocked 3 times and evaded 1x
Player B blocked 2 times

=> Player A deserved to win.

In addition: The polearmstun forced him to block very often until he got a chance to attack succesful ;)
=> We should nerf Polearms.

Tbh dont take my answer to serious.
I do think that Polearms and 2-Hand are quite balanced.

If you dont think that way try to play as a 2-Hander vs Oberyn or people with ultrafast spears like Sirstab.... (if you dont block the first thrust of Sirstab you are dead cause you are permastunned)

Offline Belmont

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2011, 09:23:09 pm »
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The new two handed animation, while it removed a decent amount of extra range it also added a ridiculously fast animation. I never understood the problem behind the old stab (aside the damage, which was fixed).

I support a revert.

Offline Tai Feng

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2011, 11:52:36 pm »
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I never understood the problem behind the old stab (aside the damage, which was fixed).

+80 reach
thrusting damage equal to thrusting polearms


(I also don't know what everyone means by 'damage fixed' as I see 30p damage.. not sure how much it was before then, 35?)
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 11:53:46 pm by Tai Feng »
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Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2011, 01:56:42 am »
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If I recall correctly, cookies or tears had like 40 pierce damage with stab. Or close enough.

Offline Tai Feng

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2011, 02:18:25 am »
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If I recall correctly, cookies or tears had like 40 pierce damage with stab. Or close enough.

So now when damage is equal to thrusting-only polearms, with still longer range, it's considered "fixed"? Ok..
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Offline Dexxtaa

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2011, 06:26:53 am »
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I use both polearms and two-handed weapons on the same character.

The lolstab is fine, stop complaining about it. I used the Tears prepatch, and frankly, the animation has sorted out the issue with the lolstab.

I mentioned I use polearms, too. Yeah, I can lolstab with them as well. It's the same concept.

Phantom reach is something we might want to look into though. I honestly don't think that scimitars should have a 'wind attack.'
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Offline Fasader

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2011, 07:28:37 am »
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Scimitars are curved and the warband engine sees all weapons as straight stick so it hits a bit earlier at longer ranges.

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Offline Siiem

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 08:27:21 am »
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Speaking of lolstab, it's gone. I've been killed countless of timed by LHB or glavie users backpeddle... when they backpeddle my instinct says "STAAAB" which I do, then when the stab doesn't hit. the pole guy does and overhead and it hits... which makes me go wtf? However the stab is alot faster now then it used to be

Offline Belmont

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2011, 11:54:04 am »
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So now when damage is equal to thrusting-only polearms, with still longer range, it's considered "fixed"? Ok..

Indeed, the damage was fixed.
German Greatsword has 30p, Masterwork German has 34p. (Thrust = +? range)
Awlpike has 33p, Masterwork Awlpike has 39p. (Thrust = +19 range)

The extra range was never much of a problem, I wouldn't mind if it was reduced to match the +61 range one handers get. However, the ease of spin thrusting with the new animation IS a problem.

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« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 11:59:34 am by Belmont »

Offline Rumblood

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2011, 01:57:08 pm »
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Scimitars are curved and the warband engine sees all weapons as straight stick so it hits a bit earlier at longer ranges.

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Makes sense to me, but it does give it a longer "effective" range as it hits you before it is close enough, and when the graphic portion does reach where you were, you aren't there anymore.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2011, 09:23:41 pm »
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German Greatsword used with 1 point of 2H WPF and just 12 AGI has the same swing speed and much faster trust than Great Long Bardiche used with 144 Polearms WPF and 21 AGI. Truth to be told, while using German Greatsword I had 7 PS and with GLB just 6 PS. Slash damage was much better with GLB, mostly because 144 WPF and 9 more slash damage (both weapons are normal). But trust with GG is deadly, one hit kill to guys wearing low armor and two hit to guys using mail. Since lolstab is easily spamable (hey even I can do that :lol:) I conclude that 2H weapons are just a little bit less OP than throwing atm (that char is 7PT thrower, extremely deadly with just 7PT, don't wanna know what is like having 12 PT).

Few of the devs are huge two handed sword aficionados, this couldn't be work of just one guy. For 3 months I'm playing this mod, 2H swords were probably the strongest melee choice and that was always justified with "skill". Dear devs, polearms don't take skill or what?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 09:27:23 pm by Leshma »

Offline Punisher

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2011, 10:08:57 pm »
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Few of the devs are huge two handed sword aficionados, this couldn't be work of just one guy. For 3 months I'm playing this mod, 2H swords were probably the strongest melee choice and that was always justified with "skill". Dear devs, polearms don't take skill or what?

Spamming someone to death while they are stunned takes a lot of skill indeed. 2H were nerfed badly (damage, range, speed, new animation) while only the top tier poleaxes got a slight nerf. What exactly are you compaining about? The same you 2shot people with GG, an archer with 6 PS and 1 polearm WPF 1shots me when i wear light armor with Long Hafted Spiked Mace or 2shot with medium armor, the 2nd shot usually can't be avoided because of the stun. And what about Long Hafted Blade, that has same cut damage as the top 2H swords, stun, longer range, faster and ridiculously cheap?

But yes, 2H stab is overpowered, it is so hard to block down then use a right swing (with a 150 lenght weapon it will easily outreach the 2H stab range).

It's funny how as soon as someone complains about 2H it gets nerfed immediately (on top of the current nerfs, barmace and long iron mace are losing crushthrough is the next patch), but if someone complains about polearms the official dev response is "Deal with it". Compared to 2H, Polearms have STUN are cheaper, faster, better range, some of the best price/range/speed/damage combinations in-game (long hafted blade, long hafted spiked mace), very efficient with low WPF, high versatility (you can be spammer, crusher,shieldbreaker, spearman, cav if you add riding, spearman+shield), better for fighting multiple opponents.

If given the opportunity to trade my 2H heirlooms I will switch to polearms as it seems they filled the spot 2H had before the patch, so why not take advantage and enjoy using OP weapons.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 10:15:03 pm by Punisher »

Offline Joxer

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2011, 10:35:19 pm »
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Also common misconception about 'phantom reach' is that the hits have to hit the players torso. Hitting someones finger tips does full damage too.
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Offline Elmetiacos

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2011, 10:44:01 pm »
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Standard = Onehand overhead (+0)

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80 - old animation

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50
I, of course, don't believe any of it...
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Offline Vexus

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Re: LOLstab and phantom reach
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2011, 11:16:43 pm »
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I, of course, don't believe any of it...
(click to show/hide)

And why would you think polearms length is taller near 2h if that wasn't true?

People would complain on polearm length if they didn't lose length from the animations, do you see any complaints on polearm lengths? I don't.

Taleworld solution instead of making poelarm animations better was making them long eventough their thrust still is kinda crap if it's only +19.