[Cross-Clan EU Unit] The Cult of Mithras - Wednesdays at 18.30 UTC?

[BalrogBoru]

Anyhow, if I ever return...

Troll^

Anyway back OT;
I would be playing one of those 2h/pikemen in this squad if I played and it's my personal opinion that if you play melee and you are not faster(ath) than your opponent, then you do not get to dictate tactics, your enemy does.

Quite often when I am fighting on battle I have to make decisions based not only on who I'm fighting but where I'm fighting. It's easier to kill cav in confined spaces, you can use the speed variation on hills to more easily dodge archers, and simply being faster on foot than any melee I'm up against always gives me an edge, knowing I don't always have to block every one of his attacks if I can just move out of range instead. This works especially well with long range melee weapons like 2h/pike. No shielder in the game can advance on me, and I can position myself behind anyone approaching on my allies shieldwall with ease.

There are too many reasons for me to support balanced builds with high ath and weapon master over more str based builds. You can try to convince me otherwise but it better be the best arguement I've ever heard cause as far as I'm concerned, agi is science.

[Tomas_of_Miles]

I'd think agility was pretty crucial to a build like a 1h/pole shielder hybrid. You'd need a fair bit of wpf and shield skill along with athletics.

[Tristan]

@Balrog: Normally I'd agree with you, however when fighting in formation speed is of less importance. Speed is important when you run around and need to dodge in duel like environment. When fighting in formation the individual manoeuverability is less, but hopefully outweighed by the organisation of the group.

That is why I believe athletics does not play a crucial role as you contrary to how you are fighting now on public servers do not use the power og dodging and backstabbing, but the power of coorperation and massed shields in formation.

Mustikki, Phaz, Ramses and all you others what do you think?

[H4rdn3ssKill3r]

what ever builds we use, to walk in a group we should agree on same athletics or at least a minimum athletics
suggesting minimum 6, personal i prefer 8


1h/sh/pole hybrid

high shield skill
high athletics
high wpm

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
    Strength: 12
    Agility: 24

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 1
    Power Strike: 4
    Shield: 8
    Athletics: 8
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 151
    Polearm: 107

I say no, 4 PS for shielders? are you crazy?

18/18 for shielders :/

[Xant]

I say no, 4 PS for shielders? are you crazy?

18/18 for shielders :/

It's not that bad, 10 hits to kill someone is perfectly acceptable!

[Tristan]

I think it is important to remember the function of the trooper in this particular situation. That is why I believe str > agi in formation fighting.

[Bjord]

It's not that bad, 10 hits to kill someone is perfectly acceptable!

 
Not to forget, kinngrimm abused the hell out of the retirement system before and he has everything heirloomed. And also to not mention he has a +3 steel pick, so that's like -7 hits needed, another -1 due to speed bonus.

[RamsesXXIIX]

Been away for the weekend, got some stuff to comment on:

TS:
I'm confident we can use the Fallen+HRE TS when needed, just announce it a bit early on. Did we agree on a time to meet and do something?

Promoting:
Just got back, so couldn't do anything before now. Are you still interested in me collecting a roster?

Formations in theory:
Is incredibly hard to make good. Personally I'm interested in getting them to work, but it will not be easy. I like the idea of having a mix of defensive shielders+offensive slashers(be it 2h or pole) and long-reaching pikemen(Be it pikes or longspears), but my main problem with this is the vulnerability from ranged. If you got a group of people, say about 10-15, all sticking close together, you ARE gonna be sitting ducks. Soon everybody finds a crossbow and shoots you up. Instead, if you want people to use their STF characters, how about making a ton of hybrid shielders? Everybodys got ranged protection, and then combining a force of 1handers, hoplites and throwers, you can respond to all threats relatively well and STILL not be shot to pieces. Perhaps have 1-3 high dmg'ing slashers to up the damage of the group a bit, but nothing more.

Communication systems:
Again, sounds nice but is hard to get to work. If we can get people to train it, all right. If not a lot, then don't at all.

Athletics:
Is the most important teamworking skill for me. Thats right.
    Because without it, you can't control the fight. And if you can't control the fight, but can only be controlled by the enemy, you cannot work together to take the enemy down.

Might be more later on.

[Tristan]

Nice input Ramses.

So we need to agree on a 1h/pole hybrid build we'll test out for formation fighting. 18/21?

[RamsesXXIIX]

I used this Hybrid in Phalanx:

(click to show/hide)

Strength   18   
Agility   18   
Weapon proficiency
Available points: 4
One Handed   1   1 point per wpf
Two Handed   1   1 point per wpf
Polearm   132   7 points per wpf
Archery   1   1 point per wpf
Crossbow   1   1 point per wpf
Throwing   101   5 points per wpf
Skills
Available points: 0
Iron Flesh   0   3 strength per level
Power Strike   6   3 strength per level
Shield   5   3 agility per level
Athletics   6   3 agility per level
Riding   0   3 agility per level
Horse Archery   0   6 agility per level
Power Draw   0   3 strength per level
Power Throw   6   3 strength per level
Weapon Master   6   3 agility per level

You can pretty easily swap some things around to make it fit better.

[Tristan]

Formations in theory:
Is incredibly hard to make good. Personally I'm interested in getting them to work, but it will not be easy. I like the idea of having a mix of defensive shielders+offensive slashers(be it 2h or pole) and long-reaching pikemen(Be it pikes or longspears), but my main problem with this is the vulnerability from ranged.

Well in theory, wouldn't the shielders at the side provide some cover? And maybe add a tower shield to the "killers" for marching protection?

Ok, we need to decide what we are going to try out the first time we meet so people can have a char ready.

All Phalanx polearm/Thrower hybrid or defensive hybrid + 2h/pole crusher + pike support?

[Tristan]

A majority decided to keep all discussion in this thread.

Next poll is what we need to try out the first time we meet.

[RamsesXXIIX]

Well in theory, wouldn't the shielders at the side provide some cover? And maybe add a tower shield to the "killers" for marching protection?

Ok, we need to decide what we are going to try out the first time we meet so people can have a char ready.

All Phalanx polearm/Thrower hybrid or defensive hybrid + 2h/pole crusher + pike support?

In Theory yes, but under practical circumstances I heavily doubt it. EX: What if enemy archers are on a high spot?

Anyway, my idea is concerned about everyone having a shield. From there, people can choose to use onehanded weapons, spears, or throwing weapons as they like. As long as we get a decent balance of these, it shouldn't be a problem.

[BalrogBoru]

Athletics:
Is the most important teamworking skill for me. Thats right.
    Because without it, you can't control the fight. And if you can't control the fight, but can only be controlled by the enemy, you cannot work together to take the enemy down.

Exactly what I said and yet you talk down to me and commend him. Now you've really lost me.

I hope this works, I miss the days when hybrids were feasible and would love to see a group based on this idea succeed. Especially with throwing and pikes involved. Two or three good heavy hitters to protect the group from rampages but mostly an all-out, anti-cav, anti-ranged, nightmare of a squad.

[Tristan]

Concerning the polearm/thrower hybrids I am a bit worried that they will get defeated by good 1h+shield in close combat.