End this STR madness

[Tydeus]

This is exactly the argument I was making with Spag earlier in this thread. It's not like upping the wpf "cap" 30-50 points is automatically going to create "game breaking speeds". Think about that in terms of what that amount of speed means for a weapon's final swing speed. It's rather minor.

[Zisa]

Please, an increase in wpf per WM skill. Having agi increase weapon speed would be nice too.

Really punitive: terrain modifiers to movement. Currently NA1 most maps are stock village in a bowl / on a plateau. i.e. lots of climbing.

[Konrax]

They need to address the WPF curve for sure.

I know they want hyrbids to be viable but you can achieve it easily with low WM right now and when you put all the points into a single line you get decent levels of speed.

Addressing the WPF curve I think would balance it pretty easily.

Going back to the Native model where every 25 wpf the cost increases by one point worked quite well imho. Right now the difference between 6 and 7 wm in a single melee line is barely noticeable, at least for a shielder.

[Vibe]

From all the suggestions I'm still most satisfied with Balton's idea, linear 5wpp per wpf. Or just remove free wpf per level and transfer everything to weapon master.

[dado]

wtf is this !? strgh build and agil builds are just fine. i dont see good players crying here.

yea u wont more profit from agi ? so we need to fight more agi whores who back pedal and swing hafted blade and great bardiche. LAME CUNTS !

[Bjord]

Well if it doesn't get addressed soon, I'm going to have to conform to the STR mania. A lot of players seem to be crutching on strength hard and for a reason: it's a lot easier when you can take 6 held and properly aimed hits, plus when the sweet spot window is like a 100% longer allowing you to basically never glance.

You just swipe all over the place, and if you're good with range control it doesn't matter if they guy has 13 athletics, just aim the center of the swing slightly to left/right depending on swing direction. Due to low wpf, your thrusts will even last longer and still hit effectively. He'll either run into your swing when trying to "jab" you (because if you have a 30/9 build and some nice heirloomed 80+ armour gear you take minimum damage, sometimes hits just glance too) or be forced to block/evade and stay out of range. Alternatively move in closer but then the risk of glancing is even higher. Meanwhile the bulldozing STR crutcher is just going to block/attack for ever.

And above would be the scenario of two equally competent two-handers, but one is heavy STR and the other is balanced. Like Vibe mentioned in this thread, the more strength you're packing the more effective each hit will be. Dispute it all you want, STR focus is not harder than balanced build. Both statistically and from my own perspective with 21/18 build. I take 3 hits maximum, sometimes 2 and the 30/9 build takes 5-6 proper hits. Are you fucking kidding? Do please, fucking explain, how on earth, is this not easier?

Even in battle, with 80+ armour, you're a monster in 1 v 2 situations. Shielders are like annoying bugs to you, just hit them once and they fucking vaporize from the sheer destructive force of your hits. Polearms on the other hand, can be a problem. But then again, when aren't they? Regardless of your build, a piker will still destroy you in 1 v 2-3 situation. You still take more hits as a high STR focus build than your average balanced 21/18-18/21.

Give me a sensible reason why STR is harder and I will gladly agree with you, but you better address all the cons. I'm sorry if I don't take you for your word that NA players pack high STR because they are skilled and they can chamber(wow!? chamber!?).

[Vibe]

Well said Bjord.

Once one knows how to play a low ath/str build, meaning being patient, waiting for that agi dude to come in range, range control, etc... It becomes apparent that the one with more fixed advantages (more hitting power, a lot more hp) is the winner.

Pair a STR build with decent armor, or even the heaviest (I mean why not, you have low ath anyway) and you have a fucking terminator. As for me, I can't wait to grind enough gold on my 36/3 STF alt to buy black armor and see how long it takes to kill me.

[MaHuD]

Hm, I always saw STR guys as the main "force" along with shielders.
the AGI guys are for flanking and destroying archers.

[Tydeus]

Hm, I always saw STR guys as the main "force" along with shielders.
the AGI guys are for flanking and destroying archers.

That's because of how the builds have to be played to currently be "effective". This concept you have just goes to show how worthless agi builds are.

[Kato]

Hm, I always saw STR guys as the main "force" along with shielders.
the AGI guys are for flanking and destroying archers.

this.

I made agi shielder as the skip the fun character. 9/30 build (3ps,10shield,10athletics)
 
Its great fun to play, i rarely top scoreboards but with this char I make it in first battle.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/mb26b.jpg/

[hippy_with_a_scimi]

this.

I made agi shielder as the skip the fun character. 9/30 build (3ps,10shield,10athletics)
 
Its great fun to play, i rarely top scoreboards but with this char I make it in first battle.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/mb26b.jpg/

im sure all thoses kills didnt had a single plated dude  ,  and lots of leathers ,  nice try tho

[Tydeus]

this.

I made agi shielder as the skip the fun character. 9/30 build (3ps,10shield,10athletics)
 
Its great fun to play, i rarely top scoreboards but with this char I make it in first battle.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/mb26b.jpg/

Any skilled player is going to be able to get lots of kills in melee, regardless of how good/bad his build is. It's a matter of how much effort you had to exert to get a mere 22:6 K:D in 8 rounds. You're not even averaging three kills a round, but sure... it was your first time even using the build so that's supposed to say a lot right? I've had some pretty shitty builds, including ones where my melee wpf is just left at "1" and I still had maps where I got a ton of kills. Like Balbaroth said, there are a lot of factors that are involved in battle, some of which you can completely avoid(at least for a little while) like plate armor enemies and others you can completely capitalize on, like picking on ranged.

[[ptx]]

Shielder is the only melee class that actually usually does worse with STR builds. A 30/9 polearm or 2h char is near effortless to play with, especially if you have heavy armor.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

I don't know what you're all talking about.

I started crpg with a balanced 2h and played it a long time. Then I went strength for the last months. Was fun, got many 1hit-kills and survived many hits. Now I'm back to more agi/balanced and I have currently much more fun and can do many things battle i couldn't anymore.

The point is not that agility or strength builds are superior over the other, but that both simply have their advantages. Currently I would even say the advantages of a strengthbuild are inferior to balanced/slightly more agibuilds. Especially if you stay on top of things in battle, watch movements of the 2 teams you can much easier choose where to engage, more simply retreat and engage at other places. Also fights against multiple oponents are much easier, IMO.

[Vibe]

The point is not that agility or strength builts are superior over the other, but that both simply have their advantages.

Except... strength has more advantages.