Polearms....

[CaptainQuantum]

It's been a long time since people have started asking for pole stun/stagger to be removed, the devs have said it's not possible until WSE is released. So now it is can pole stun/stagger be reduced to the way 2 hand works, poles are way more overpowered than 2 hands and this would be a step in the correct direction.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

someone's has alreadya sked for that 

[Thucydides]

sure. Keep polestagger for long poles though

[CaptainQuantum]

Good to hear, I was just making sure.

After that we need a complete rethink of pole stats though, some poles have everything over a 2hand of the same role, but I know people will just say 2hand are OP buff poles.

[Dezilagel]

sure. Keep polestagger for long poles though

Err... Why? 

EDIT: Quant you mad bro?

What exactly apart from polestun makes poles so OP?

They have a more powerful stab sure, but it's way shorter (+17 length vs +80 for 2h) and generally worse animations?

Horsestop? (2h have the range/animations to snipe the rider, poles can stop the horse - just different ways of approaching the problem)

Balanced shieldbreak? (this I can agree with, 2h should have some balanced axes!)

But on the whole, I think it's fairly balanced, both classes have their pro's and cons, just gotta deal with the bs gamemechanics like polestun.

[Thucydides]

Err... Why? 

because long poles with one directional attack is fairly useless in team battles without the long stagger?

[CaptainQuantum]

The poles I am talking of are the longer ones, glaive especially. Backpedalling and a little manual blocking is virtually impossible to beat no matter your skill, even the best of the 22nd has issues with the worst of players using this. Then theres the polearm axes (GLA and co.) which have absolutely no stats worse than the best 2 hands, (the only thing they lose is a stab which is balanced out with their effectiveness on shields).

2hand stab may seem powerful, but it has a huge recovery time, a block from a shield too early in the swing makes the 2hander unable to block the next swing, and now with floor bounce the same occurs with a stab miss.

[Dezilagel]

The poles I am talking of are the longer ones, glaive especially. Backpedalling and a little manual blocking is virtually impossible to beat no matter your skill, even the best of the 22nd has issues with the worst of players using this. Then theres the polearm axes (GLA and co.) which have absolutely no stats worse than the best 2 hands, (the only thing they lose is a stab which is balanced out with their effectiveness on shields).

2hand stab may seem powerful, but it has a huge recovery time, a block from a shield too early in the swing makes the 2hander unable to block the next swing, and now with floor bounce the same occurs with a stab miss.

Yes, backpeddaling glavie spammers are annoying, but I've found a way to deal with them - backpeddle while looking like a moron yourself - they usually get the message 

While glavies are the most common backpeddaling weps, 2h do it just as "well" thanks to reach
 gained from animations (also, dat stab)

Poles have the same long stagger when stab is blocked, especially by shields it seems (afaik) since they are so heavy. Floor bounce is the same.

And no, the best poles don't have stats that are worse than their 2h counterparts...?

Should they?

I'm not quite getting what you're trying to say here.

[CaptainQuantum]

No the stab part was for the GLA, the pole stab recovery will be less due to faster animation. The amount of stun depends on the animation length I think.

The backpedalling to show how silly it is doesn't seem to do anything to the noobs, they just keep on going until theres no map length. They come back and then start backpedalling again.

The reason I mentioned the GLA is because I think it's speed got upped today, it one hits people and it now has the same speed as a Danish at 3k less? WTF?

[Thucydides]

I like to point out that my GLA rarely ever stunlocks anyone, especially if they're "pro". I have to be literally suicidal to get a hit on a "pro" blocker, else it'll just degenerate to a block battle, and GLA feints suck dick. The suicidal attacks leave me ill positioned to initiate an attack immediately after my hit landed to "double hit".

[CaptainQuantum]

I believe all poles have the same chance to cause polestun (50%?) which will result in a free strike. If I heard Paul correctly in TS that is. Polearm (Edit:axe) feints are not so good, but held polearm spins are much better than 2hands since the animations are wierd. I have no idea why the unbalanced attribute was removed from those axes since they seemed fine before.

[Thucydides]

I believe all poles have the same chance to cause polestun (50%?) which will result in a free strike. If I heard Paul correctly in TS that is. Polearm (Edit:axe) feints are not so good, but held polearm spins are much better than 2hands since the animations are wierd. I have no idea why the unbalanced attribute was removed from those axes since they seemed fine before.

not true, in my experience only poles with 92+ speed can get a free hit after a polestun, and thats if they are angled perfectly. Becs are the main problem because 2 hits is all that is needed to kill a str build in full plate. I've tried the glaive, poleaxe, GLA, GLB, and all of them cannot 2 hit unless against a person with terrible footwork.

Making a weapon unbalanced means that it is impossible to duel with it, which is retarded because dane axes were considered "knightly" weapons and were balanced well enough to be used in a duel

[CaptainQuantum]

It isn't dependant on the person's footwork, while staggered they cannot move so it's not their fault. Even without the perfect stun where you net yourself a free hit you can move around the back and hit again without the person being able to turn around in time. I would check with Paul for whether complete stunlock is possible (a guaranteed hit after the first). 

On the longspear stun, yes I think it should stay since these are support weapons.

[Dezilagel]

No the stab part was for the GLA, the pole stab recovery will be less due to faster animation. The amount of stun depends on the animation length I think.

The animation length is exactly the same afaik, the pole stab hits with force earlier, but has longer "still at max reach" and "draw-back" times. I've gotten my thrust chambered with both pole and 2h (0 wpf) and it seems to me that it's equally hard to get a block in for both (I rarely do, but there seems to be a tiny window for it).

The backpedalling to show how silly it is doesn't seem to do anything to the noobs, they just keep on going until theres no map length. They come back and then start backpedalling again.

(This is quite a ridiculous statement btw... But I hope you figured that out yourself)

So? Let them wander off then. One less player for your team to deal with.

The reason I mentioned the GLA is because I think it's speed got upped today, it one hits people and it now has the same speed as a Danish at 3k less? WTF?

Well, pro's and cons of Danish vs GLA:

Danish:

Length - (Overhead +29, Left - to - Right +23, Right - to - Left +14, Stab  +60)

Stab/Access to pierce damage (obvious)

Feinting

GLA:

Price

(swing) Damage (Mind you, the Danish has a pierce damage attack, something the GLA is lacking, making it better against really heavily armored opponents)

Shieldbreak

Stun

I dunno, I think they're pretty balanced.

Whatever "crusade" you're onto right now, I suggest dropping it.

Yes, polestun is shit, but to go yelling "wah-wah, poles are soo OP" without providing any real arguments to support your claim isn't helping anyone imo.

[Tears of Destiny]

Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation.

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

Two handers are easier to Castor swing and point blank fighting, and in my experience harder to predict feints.

Regardless, Polearm stun is a bit weird and maybe unbalancing, though I do like that it stops horses with a thrust.