CRPG has lost that luvin' feelin'

[Kafein]

Well, sir, that's your problem right there. 

Sorry, i don't mean to be harsh or come over as a troll, but seriously... if that's your attitude then the fault isn't with the game... it's with your inflated sense of entitlement.

Learn to live with losses or prepare to be annoyed in any game you play. Don't ever allow yourself to think you're better than the average player or that your presence on a 50 player team would result in a high win rate. Because if you do, you're bound to get frustrated... a lot.

On a more serious note: i feel that the 'harsh' reward system in cRPG is great. Screw personal achievements and rewards for the individual. Teamplay is where it's at.

Else we might as well go back to playing world of warcraft. *ducks and runs away* 

Heck, we already have the "Thy valour hath been rewarded"-mechanic. Maybe there is room for more of that, i admit. But never lose the 'team fails -> you lose multiplier'-mechanic. It's awesome i say. Harsh games are more fun in the long run. Too much vanilla crap out here already.

Theoretically when (if) it turns out good people are happy. In reality the effort needed is a HUGE pain in the ass just to have 'fun'. The simpler method is one that puts the POWER back in the individual. Keep the multiplier system but also augment it with OTHER (individual dependent) ways to be rewarded. That way both types of players at least have a way to determine their own fun. There are things that players SHOULD be rewarded for that would immensely increase FUN and MOTIVATION to play but the only thing that matters is the team winning now. Well if you perform well but your team still loses and you get the 'reward' of a x1 multi does that make you want to continue the thankless (and rewardless) task? 'oh great another 5 rounds against autobalance clan stacking goodness...what 'fun'' It's no wonder there is so much hate and rage in this game. A main reason is because players are forced to rely on others and desperately want to win because the multi is the 'reward'. Give players back some individual based rewards and watch as people become much more relaxed because even if their team loses they can still be rewarded on an individual basis. Make the multi the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

For me, Lichen raises a good point. The reward should be both team based and individually based. Or atleast, there should be rewarded individual-oriented modes like deathmatch or (more to my taste) duel.

In the end it all comes down to my mood when I play. When I'm serious and all, winning and loosing aren't really problems. But when I just want to enjoy the game without bothering too much there's nothing cRPG can offer.

If you think about it, the game is more than harsh. It's just incredibly frustrating in a bad way. Frustration that you can actually overcome someday is good, motivating. The frustration of (stupid example) wanting a new car and not being able to afford it yet. However, if it's just there without any reason and you don't have any means of being done with it, like the frustration of having one of your car's windows broken during the night, theres nothing motivating because anyway you can't do anything to avoid it.

Winning seems normal, deserved, and loosing is like a punishment for something you didn't do.

By this I was trying to say two things : first winning the round has lost it's motivating aspect for me. Seems logical after that much time spent playing. Second, by normal I didn't meant that I should win all the time (not even more than 50%), but that the reward seems normal and deserved even though my team doesn't win. That's why I liked the pre-january reward system : you won xp & gold by playing. Were you a good or a terrible player, you still won decent amounts of xp & gold. The bonus from winning was something like x1,5 afaik. So winning was indeed encouraged, but not to the point that you couldn't play a little carelessly or with non-optimal builds and equipments. The multiplier turned cRPG into ultra-competitive, rage-inducing fighting. To describe my thoughts :

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Lichen]

Screw personal achievements and rewards for the individual.

Screw fun and motivation as well I guess.

[Phazey]

I get what you're saying Kafein. Really, i do.

But like i said, if winning doesn't offer any sense of achievement for you and losing feels like punishment, the problem is the player, not the game.

And at Lichen: pfffrrrrtt 

[Kafein]

I get what you're saying Kafein. Really, i do.

But like i said, if winning doesn't offer any sense of achievement for you and losing feels like punishment, the problem is the player, not the game.

And at Lichen: pfffrrrrtt 

I know part of the reasons I reply on this thread are because I'm getting sick of this mod. I'll take a break of cRPG no matter what. Then maybe I'll try it again with fresh feelings. But I'm definetly not alone in the same situation or with the same opinion about the reward system. Moreover, the mod isn't what I thought it was. When I joined cRPG, I did it because I was sick of the repetitive aspect of Native MP. Play, die, buy better equipment, die again and so on. Then when the map changes everything vanishes and I feel like I didn't constructed anything. cRPG had this "persistant" touch I was searching for. I first realised it wasn't so true in January, when pretty much everything was capped to make everyone nearly the same. But now that I don't really enjoy the battles anymore because of various things, it's even clearer that the reasons I joined the mod got patched away. cRPG is closer to Native than it ever was. I stopped playing Native for a reason (other than the crappy balance, it was earlier), now cRPG is taking the same path. Winning is still motivating, but not half as much as loosing, game flaws and douchebaggery are demotivating for me.

[Thrasher]

I took a 4 month break...it did not work.

[Tears of Destiny]

I took a 4 month break...it did not work.

Take another break then and make it two years.

[Kafein]

Take another break then and make it two years.

Idk but it would surprise me if the mod was still alive then. Or it would have become a game on it's own.

[Tears of Destiny]

Stainless Steel mod has survived longer! Though then again... That mod is a six gig legend...

[Phazey]

Seriously though, i keep cRPG fresh by playing other games from time to time.

Right now, i'm really enjoying Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It's like reading a good scifi pulp book... not high class literature, but very entertaining nonetheless.

The thing that keeps me coming back is the combat mechanics and the teamplay. And the clan i guess. It's like a good pub, always cozy and lots of friendly people.

[Tears of Destiny]

Seriously though, i keep cRPG fresh by playing other games from time to time.

Right now, i'm really enjoying Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It's like reading a good scifi pulp book... not high class literature, but very entertaining nonetheless.

The thing that keeps me coming back is the combat mechanics and the teamplay. And the clan i guess. It's like a good pub, always cozy and lots of friendly people.

This post is identical to what I would write, 100% behind this, and I am literally doing all of that, and also that is exactly what brings me back.

[Kafein]

cRPG was the first mod/game that got me hooked so much I didn't played many other games at the same time. And I played it nearly non-stop for a whole year now. I guess it has to end sooner or later.

And you know what, I still play it despite this thread... Today I joined, did well/ok and I stayed a couple of hours because I was enjoying it. So it makes me think my lower motivation is more due to "end of holiday depression" than other things. I need to go back to the university . Diluting my playtime, coming back home tired, that'll help 

There are problems, sometimes they seem small, sometimes not. There are those gaming sessions when everything goes as you predicted, and others when all the game flaws keep on killing you

[farthammer]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

CAtrol alt delate is bads

[Templar_Ratigan]

Personally I just think they need to take crpg back to it's roots. Tell the community to fuck off and just do it your way dev's, it's your mod afterall.

Crpg was originally just a version of Native where you could pick your gear and stats and frankly I preferred it then.  Now it is a bizarre mishmash of odd projectiles and occasional mad animations.

I miss the fun builds and the silly weapons, IE: boulderonastick and the loony toons axe. What happened to the Crpg sense of fun? Now everyone seems to be a miserable bastard hell bent on squeezing the most efficiency out of their build or gear, it's even affecting me, im fast becoming a miserable bastard myself because this game has become one of the most frustrating wastes of time ive ever took part in.

As for why I still play, because the internet and it's people being the unoriginal pile of goo that it is/they are and that question is bound to pop up here, I occasionally get the old feelings of hilarity and amusement out of this game, but it is far too rare.

I dont even want to get into the insanity of the stabs, slashes and other maddening elements that have been introduced recently. I never had a problem with 2 handed sword thrusts until the animation's were 'fixed'. Or the random freezes that dont afflict me in native or any other game for that matter.

Frankly I lay the blame on the majority as all do in such situations, the constant WAH WAHing about EVERY....SINGLE.....LITTLE....FUCKING...THING!!!!

Even im doing it, although my anger tends to come from a feeling of exasperation towards something that I, nor anyone else, can explain, like getting hit by a man not facing you and swinging in completely the opposite direction, of course we all know thats a big lie to cover up someone's ego or something because they are a bad player......which still doesnt explain why ive actually seen it with my own eyes.
Im not a liar and I dont care about score, (wouldnt play on Pebble_Pusher if I did,) I dont make shit up to make myself feel better when I make a mistake, I accept it and try and learn from it im happy to do so, ive even sat on minus scores without making an excuse or being bothered about it because I understood what I did wrong and how I got there. What I despise is being done in by something inexplicable and unexpected that leaves me with the classic 'what the fuck' face that I pretty much wear all the time now while playing this module.

The fact is, none of this would have come to pass had not the mighty community complained and complained about this and that till we are left with the rotten scrotum of Crpg's remains. 

[Henry_Broodsonson]

Guys, please go a bit higher than Kindergarten levels.

I'd try to bring in a real discussion, but pages of "ad hominem" just makes me lose my hope in this.


Anyway, to counter the "ranged spam" "cavalry spam" "unfair teams" problem, A "class" based balancing method should be used in my opinion. Meh, don't start rage about that class thingy, I'll elaborate.

Anyway, what I'm talking about is this: Balance out players by checking their Weapon Proficiency/Skills.

If you have riding, you are obviously cavalry, if you have more Archery like skills, you count as an archer. If you have crossbow WPF, you are a crossbowman. The idea is simple: To balance out the number of these "playstyles" between teams. I know this might be difficult, but it might be the solution we are looking for. And yes, this would mean that Crossbows would have a WPF difficulty to equip them.

Also this might mess up Banner Balance. But clans have Strategus, the upcoming Stronghold mode favors them as well.
Enough of a playground if you ask me.

After this "class" type of balance, the performance type of it should kick in, meaning that teams should have fairly paired opponents, not all the superheroes in one team, and fodder in the other.

What do you say? The idea itself is not thought out to the last bit, by the way.

Also I'd mix the both of the two worlds: The tick/multiplier system feels a bit empty. I'd mix it up with the kill proximity system. Remember how it was? No matter who got the kill, everyone around it got a fair slice. Sure, cav would get a bit less, but that's where an (Impossible to implement?) Assist counting system would be handy.

There are so many oppurtunities in this game, let's not give up this early.

Reintroduce the old area based xp system as well, with one small change. The old system awarded gold and xp based upon the rank of the person killed, which was determined by their overall xp, which is not determined by their ability but by how often they played.

Instead, award gold and xp for players killed (in the old proximity system) based on their k/d ratio. The beauty of this is it puts a bounty on people, skilled or overpowered players would more likely get ganged up on, making the game more `challenging` for them and might reintroduce the petty rivalry from the earlier game. People will have to work a lot harder to preserve their precious k/d when the other team is getting heavily rewarded for scalping them.

Smashing into the flanks of an enemy army on horseback when your team hit them from the front, and watching the numbers fly. What the game needs....

[Kafein]

Personally I just think they need to take crpg back to it's roots. Tell the community to fuck off and just do it your way dev's, it's your mod afterall.

Crpg was originally just a version of Native where you could pick your gear and stats and frankly I preferred it then.  Now it is a bizarre mishmash of odd projectiles and occasional mad animations.

I miss the fun builds and the silly weapons, IE: boulderonastick and the loony toons axe. What happened to the Crpg sense of fun? Now everyone seems to be a miserable bastard hell bent on squeezing the most efficiency out of their build or gear, it's even affecting me, im fast becoming a miserable bastard myself because this game has become one of the most frustrating wastes of time ive ever took part in.

As for why I still play, because the internet and it's people being the unoriginal pile of goo that it is/they are and that question is bound to pop up here, I occasionally get the old feelings of hilarity and amusement out of this game, but it is far too rare.

I dont even want to get into the insanity of the stabs, slashes and other maddening elements that have been introduced recently. I never had a problem with 2 handed sword thrusts until the animation's were 'fixed'. Or the random freezes that dont afflict me in native or any other game for that matter.

Frankly I lay the blame on the majority as all do in such situations, the constant WAH WAHing about EVERY....SINGLE.....LITTLE....FUCKING...THING!!!!

Even im doing it, although my anger tends to come from a feeling of exasperation towards something that I, nor anyone else, can explain, like getting hit by a man not facing you and swinging in completely the opposite direction, of course we all know thats a big lie to cover up someone's ego or something because they are a bad player......which still doesnt explain why ive actually seen it with my own eyes.
Im not a liar and I dont care about score, (wouldnt play on Pebble_Pusher if I did,) I dont make shit up to make myself feel better when I make a mistake, I accept it and try and learn from it im happy to do so, ive even sat on minus scores without making an excuse or being bothered about it because I understood what I did wrong and how I got there. What I despise is being done in by something inexplicable and unexpected that leaves me with the classic 'what the fuck' face that I pretty much wear all the time now while playing this module.

The fact is, none of this would have come to pass had not the mighty community complained and complained about this and that till we are left with the rotten scrotum of Crpg's remains. 

You are pretty much both describing those "wtf" moments when you are killed by something without the feeling it should have happened (ghost ranges, hits and blocks not registering, that kind of shit). And the overall shift in the player attitude from "having fun", including half-serious weapons, much more roleplay, gimmick builds, honorable fights etc. to "winning at all costs", including heavy lobbyism about every balance aspect of the game, build and equipment optimization, douchebag tactics, leeching, exploiting, clan-stacking and banner-stealing and so on...

I don't think the proximity system is a good one. Giving exp per tick or per global enemy deaths (without the proximity aspect) is better because some classes have to be away from the fighting. However, I preferred the xp radius thingy because it didn't emphasized on winning as much as the one we have now and had no upkeep. Players had no reason to be douchebags towards each other back then. Now they have.