Weapons which need attention

[DrKronic]

If u really want a laff compare the standard bastard sword to a katana u will realize the bastard sword is far superior due to increased effective range due to usable thrust damage better reach nearly same speed extremely low upkeep

[UrLukur]

If u really want a laff compare the standard bastard sword to a katana u will realize the bastard sword is far superior due to increased effective range due to usable thrust damage better reach nearly same speed extremely low upkeep

Fail, bastard sword deal less damage and is noticeably slower. It's upkeep was increased. If anything BS is worse than Katana.

[justme]

if only nordic chamion is returned to prepatch stats

[DrKronic]

Fail, bastard sword deal less damage and is noticeably slower. It's upkeep was increased. If anything BS is worse than Katana.

Actually they deal same swing damage with bastard dealing 23p to katanas 18p and bastard having six more reach

An they differ by 3 speed are u looking at right weapon forumlurker I mean weaponslobbyist urlurkur

There got it

[Rhaelys]

Heavy Great Sword
weight 2.75
requirement 13
spd rtng 94
weapon length 120
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 25 pierce

Great Sword
weight 2.5
requirement 13
spd rtng 93
weapon length 120
swing damage 37, cut
thrust damage 30 pierce

Not sure if this was an oversight or just part of balance, but something that has Heavy in its name and weighs .25 more probably shouldn't be 1 speed faster.

[UrLukur]

Heavy Great Sword
weight 2.75
requirement 13
spd rtng 94
weapon length 120
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 25 pierce

Great Sword
weight 2.5
requirement 13
spd rtng 93
weapon length 120
swing damage 37, cut
thrust damage 30 pierce

Not sure if this was an oversight or just part of balance, but something that has Heavy in its name and weighs .25 more probably shouldn't be 1 speed faster.

Yep, nerf it. Or nerf both of them! to 90 and 91 respectively.

[Punisher]

Better nerf all 2H to 90 speed and buff all 1H to 100+ to make UrLukur happy

[Rhaelys]

Yep, nerf it. Or nerf both of them! to 90 and 91 respectively.

Only if all one-handed weapons receive a 3 speed nerf, too. But that would make you upset, so let's stick to within-weapon type discrepancies.

Oh, and I used to be a one-hander, but it was boring so I switched to two-hander.

[XavierX]

Nerfing the nordic sword, you guys inadvertently made the knightly arming sword the better deal.

Nordic Champion Sword
weight 1.35
requirement 7
spd rtng 97
weapon length 102
swing damage 32, cut
thrust damage 21 pierce

Knightly Arming Sword
weight 1.35
requirement 7
spd rtng 97
weapon length 102
swing damage 31, cut
thrust damage 24 pierce

At baseline, they have the same speed, same length and the Knightly has 1 less cut but 3 more pierce. Fully heir-loomed, though, they have the same cut damage yet the knightly has more pierce and is 1,000 gold cheaper.

Proposal: Nerf the pierce of Nordic Champion and Sarranid Cav sword down -2 to 19 and 17 baseline respectively. Buff the cut damage at baseline and/or at masterwork to 38 and 39 cut respectively. These are exclusively chopping swords, and their damage should reflect that. To keep the Grosse Messer viable, bump its speed back up to 100 or 101 baseline like it was before. Speed is perfect on Champion and Cav swords.

In short: (heirloomed)
Knightly Arming; 36 cut @ 99 speed
Grosse Messer; 38 cut @102/103 speed
Nordic Champion; 38 cut @99 speed
Sarranid Cav; 39 cut @97 speed

Maintains more dmg = less speed. Knightly arming will do less cut but more pierce, so will be more rounded like the espada or side sword. Grosse Messer will be faster for close-in work, as it was before. Champion will slash better but have even less viable frontal stab. Sarranid cav will have a little more damage for such a slow speed and a futile stab.

[UrLukur]

Nerfing the nordic sword, you guys inadvertently made the knightly arming sword the better deal.

Nordic Champion Sword
weight 1.35
requirement 7
spd rtng 97
weapon length 102
swing damage 32, cut
thrust damage 21 pierce

Knightly Arming Sword
weight 1.35
requirement 7
spd rtng 97
weapon length 102
swing damage 31, cut
thrust damage 24 pierce

At baseline, they have the same speed, same length and the Knightly has 1 less cut but 3 more pierce. Fully heir-loomed, though, they have the same cut damage yet the knightly has more pierce and is 1,000 gold cheaper.

Proposal: Nerf the pierce of Nordic Champion and Sarranid Cav sword down -2 to 19 and 17 baseline respectively. Buff the cut damage at baseline and/or at masterwork to 38 and 39 cut respectively. These are exclusively chopping swords, and their damage should reflect that. To keep the Grosse Messer viable, bump its speed back up to 100 or 101 baseline like it was before. Speed is perfect on Champion and Cav swords.

In short: (heirloomed)
Knightly Arming; 36 cut @ 99 speed
Grosse Messer; 38 cut @102/103 speed
Nordic Champion; 38 cut @99 speed
Sarranid Cav; 39 cut @97 speed

Maintains more dmg = less speed. Knightly arming will do less cut but more pierce, so will be more rounded like the espada or side sword. Grosse Messer will be faster for close-in work, as it was before. Champion will slash better but have even less viable frontal stab. Sarranid cav will have a little more damage for such a slow speed and a futile stab.

maybe just nerf heirloom modifiers for swords so 1 base damage count?

[UrLukur]

(click to show/hide)

   
weight 2.75
requirement 10
spd rtng 92
weapon length 115
swing damage 42, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
Can't use on horseback

(click to show/hide)

weight 2.75
requirement 10
spd rtng 96
weapon length 115
swing damage 40, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
Can't use on horseback

2 damage for 4 speed, insane.

[Mala]

maybe just nerf heirloom modifiers for swords so 1 base damage count?

I would prefer fixed modifiers. Now with the relative ones an inferior weapon becomes even more inferior.

[UrLukur]

I would prefer fixed modifiers. Now with the relative ones an inferior weapon becomes even more inferior.

Not to mention damage does not scale well against armor. The more damage, the less affected by soak, the more one hit kills or two hit kills. TBF i would prefer just slight increase of stats over basic version.

For example, sword with 30 dmg deals 35 while triple heirloomed, this is a lot, against reasonable armor this is difference between 4-5 hits to kill to 2-3 hits to kill. I never used weapon that deal more than 32, but even it it's way more efficient at killing that something with 29 damage. Side Sword deal 38 damage heiroomed, which means even 1 hit kills are likely.

Seriously, every single point of damage counts up to 40c, as soak value is high and reduction value is fairly low. Consider the mail, with 46 armor. It substract 36,8 raw cut damage, then reduce 46% of remaining. Against weapon held by non str build (up to power strike 6) it means that weapon with damage 30 deals about 55 damage without speed bonus which means it deal about 10 hp. With speed bonus 50% it deal about 25, with 100% it deals about 40 hp. It bounces off with about -35% speed bonus, which means quite often, not to mention against plate it suck harder, even hits with 0% bounces off.

Heirloomed short sword deal 30c (+3). Heirloomed Side Sword, 36 (+4). With 36 damage you deal about 66 raw damage. I mean, in this system already power strike add percentage value, already wpf add percentage value to the damage. I would be ok with percentage increase for heirloomed items if the percentage would be smaller.

[EyeBeat]

As you can see, the Great Axe is cheaper, weighs less, is faster, and has bonus vs shields.
The War Cleaver's only advantage is being longer.  They share the same damage.  Currently the more intelligent choice is the Great Axe all the way and the War Cleaver is only used by stubborn people that have a hard-on for the style (I am guilty of this).

If the War Cleaver would be OP with bonus vs shields, then I guess that means the Great Axe is currently OP since it's the better weapon.

Isn't there a difference in sweet spots on both weapons.  Regarding that the Cleaver would have a bigger sweet spot than the Great Axe.  Could that be a factor as well?

[HeroZero]

REPOST IN A MORE APPROPRIATE TOPIC

I think that the War Spear in general is kinda a dumb weapon at the moment. There are two hander swords that do just as much pierce damage with thrust, with just slightly shorter range and slightly slower, but with the addition of huge cut damage on swings.

I think the War Spear should have a little higher thrust damage, just so it's fulfilling a niche, instead of just being a less effective sword.