Author Topic: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.  (Read 12464 times)

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Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: The bullshit award goes too.... Who ever just banned me
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2011, 07:46:28 pm »
+3
I regret to inform you that the rules are not open to much interpretation by Admins, even if they disagree with a rule they must enforce it.

Here is a referesher

For Nuffen,

"No offensive behavior anywhere
Remember that this is the internet. Don't be insulted if someone calls you an idiot
.

He team-killed me intentionally, I gave him no intended reason for doing so. He team attacked me and I defended myself the following round. I'm calling you an idiot, are admins exempt from the rules?

Thanks rev.

Also,

"Breaking a rule may net you a warning, mute, kick or ban at admin discretion depending on severity of rule broken and player history (yes, repeated offenders are treated more harshly). In minor offences you usually get a written warning first, in more severe cases you might get kicked or even banned immediately.

If you ever get kicked, consider that a serious warning - you are obviously doing something wrong. If you are unsure what it is, re-read these rules and/or ask the admin in question what the kick was for in a civilized manner. If you're a hot-headed type, perhaps take a few minutes to cool off before going back to shout at the admin. Same goes for all interaction with the admins, act properly and you will most likely be received better.

Voted bans last for 1 hour. These cannot be lifted by admins and are automatically removed after the time is passed.

Admin bans can be either temporary (1 hour) or "permanent". Permanent does not mean permanent in most cases, usually it's a day or two. If you are in a rush or think you have been unjustly banned, post in EU or NA unban sections (read the first post and follow the rules). Again, civilized behavior might do you some good, raging/lying just prolongs the duration of the punishment.

Admins are human too, so mistakes can happen. We are terribly sorry for not being perfect and are working on replacing all players and admins with computers for optimal performance."

Hadn't even team-killed him. Severe?
Had I been kicked, or received a serious warning? No.
Admins make mistakes, it's true, but do they take accountability for them? No.
I'm aware my non-polite manner in which I have portrayed my case will give cause for negative responses but in my defence this is the third time this has happened to me, twice by Nuffen.

Months ago Nuffen kicked me for verbally attacking another player, I was in-fact again in a position where I was responding to another players provocation, I was being trolled and Nuffen didn't take any action until I started to respond to the troll whom was targeting me, and took action against me without even trying to understand the situation.

You get random players who don't understand the game properly, they think it's ok to go around team-killing their buddies because their buddies killed a horse which belonged to an enemy which they wanted, then you get admins who don't notice or seem to care about the negative behaviour and activities of these players, when you get a victim of these players taking matters into their own hands, that doesn't equate to revenge tking, more or less nothing more than tailgating and destruction of an enemy horse, suddenly admins attention is focused on the victim and the victim gets punished, but not fairly, unjustly harshly, by an admin who'd rather press buttons than ask questions, which to me is an example of clear abuse of powers, if they're prepared to ban an individual who's been a victim of severe rule breaking enacted by their own team-mate, then at least try to nip the problem at the source and not judging purely on your personal bias towards an individual and your arrogant belief that your actions were justified without taking into account the victims side of the story.

Nuffen you immediately came to the conclusion that I was the aggressor, you immediately came to the conclusion that banning me was the right course of action, you'd decided my crimes were severe enough to warrant a ban that could become perminent, based on watching me slash my sword at him, despite the fact I was 1 hit from death, despite the fact I had not killed him, despite the fact, he purposely killed me the previous round and despite the fact I was eventually forced to defend myself. I don't judge you as a person, I don't care what you do in person but when you take actions which affect the freedoms of another player, maybe it would be considerate to think for a minute about what you're about to do, it's part of being a better person right? Oh wait, I'm so horrible I don't deserve to be treated fairly eh? So I'm being judged from bias not from the situation.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 01:15:38 am by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline Zorato

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Re: The bullshit award goes too.... Who ever just banned me
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2011, 07:50:28 pm »
+1
I'm not overtly attacking or insulting you as a person... you're not mature enough to take some criticism

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Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2011, 01:00:11 am »
0
Bump.
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Offline nuffen

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2011, 01:12:41 am »
+1
Wow
You dont even understand the difference between an abuse and a bad use. Sorry dude, but after you vent berserk on that other guy, hitting him over and over for revenge, its not even a bad use. You got SEVERAL warnings before you got banned. And, you clearly show that you dont regret.

Didnt know you were a repeated offender, thanks for telling me. If you make a post on the ban/unban forum, Ill tell you the topic and lenght of your unban essay.
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Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2011, 01:19:15 am »
-2
Wow
You dont even understand the difference between an abuse and a bad use. Sorry dude, but after you vent berserk on that other guy, hitting him over and over for revenge, its not even a bad use. You got SEVERAL warnings before you got banned. And, you clearly show that you dont regret.

Didnt know you were a repeated offender, thanks for telling me. If you make a post on the ban/unban forum, Ill tell you the topic and lenght of your unban essay.

Repeated victim of your abuse. If I had gone around team-killing with intention, If I had been purposely coming to the server to do such a thing then yeah I can see why I'd be banned, I can't believe how you're ignoring the statements which I'm providing, you're treating me like a racist treats a black man, you're blinded by negative bias for me, oh so what because I'm not part of your clique and openly criticise it, I'm now subject to being treated without any fairness atall, what part about you only targeting me don't you understand? This post is just proof of my accusations of  your negative bias against me.

Being critical of your actions is not rule breaking, yet you treat me as if it's a valid excuse to prolong my punishment, a punishment I've repeatedly argued is unfair and unjust. You're truly quite narrow minded.

You're completely smug in your position of abuse, if this mod dies, you're part of the reason why.

Oh and rev, please if you're going to discredit me at least have a decent reason for doing so, please give me one, or are you upset that I'm actually correct in what I've been saying?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 01:23:47 am by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: The bullshit award goes too.... Who ever just banned me
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2011, 01:21:38 am »
+2
Weird, it's almost as if being a douchbag is against the rules.

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2011, 01:21:56 am »
+1
Repeated victim of your abuse. If I had gone around team-killing with intention, If I had been purposely coming to the server to do such a thing then yeah I can see why I'd be banned, I can't believe how you're ignoring the statements which I'm providing, you're treating me like a racist treats a black man, you're blinded by negative bias for me, oh so what because I'm not part of your clique and openly criticise it, I'm now subject to being treated without any fairness atall, what part about you only targeting me don't you understand? This post is just proof of my accusations of bias against me.

This may be hard for you to understand, but what happened to you happens to everyone who ignores warnings and deliberately team hits. They get hit with the ban hammer. You did not get singled out.

Hell, to make it obvious, if I see the same thing happen and give warnings and those are ignored, I will issue a short little ban too.

For a veteran of c-RPG there is no excuse for ignorance of this ancient stance on deliberate team hits.
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Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 01:29:23 am »
+1
This may be hard for you to understand, but what happened to you happens to everyone who ignores warnings and deliberately team hits. They get hit with the ban hammer. You did not get singled out.

Hell, to make it obvious, if I see the same thing happen and give warnings and those are ignored, I will issue a short little ban too.

For a veteran of c-RPG there is no excuse for ignorance of this ancient stance on deliberate team hits.

In the rules a kick is considered a serious warning, when you're in the heat of battle, whether it's a team-mate trying to kill you or a zerg coming from the opposing team, are you while in the middle of the fury of battle able to remain completely focused on the chat corner of the screen? I'm sure most, like myself are not able to remain that focused on everything that's going on my screen, especially when a fast 1h'er is spamming me with overheads and swing feints and I'm trying to stop myself from being killed at the same time as trying to remove the person who's trying to kill me by striking back.

I'll say it again because you don't seem to understand.

I didn't team kill anyone.

A kick would have sufficed.

Banning is the worst punishment, it should in my opinion be reserved for the worst offences, since I had not actually team-killed, since I was defending myself, I can't see how my actions would be classed as a bad offence.

Tell me REV is it ok for people to team-kill when they want, and not even receive a kick? Tell me REV is it ok for that same person then to attack the same person they team-killed the previous round without being stopped by an admin, because the person they team-killed with intent tried killing a horse that didn't belong to them that they whistled for?

Tell me REV does killing free-roaming horses constitute a just reason for others to target you with team-hitting?

I've already accepted and even said so here that my actions were not that of best behaviour and I did deserve some form of punishment as I know all team-hitting is not allowed, but I'll say it again, team-hitting someone who attacked you first, who should have been kicked anyway, is not something which should be instantly judged as a severe offence, how can it be? Please elaborate this bland judgement where all shades of grey are given the death sentence.

Humans eh, we all have flaws, but ignorance of fact is one of our biggest flaws, usually driven by selfish motives, power, control, self-satisfaction, smug clique behaviour..
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 01:45:22 am by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2011, 01:37:06 am »
0
nuffen is known to be an easy trigger though. At least in this case a kick would have been enough. Also Murmillus you should know creating a thread about it when you broke the rules won't help you. I think everybody take revenge like that or make minor violations to the rules from time to time, probably because of RL stress, yet it's not a reason not to punish it when an admin is there.

People that don't like nuffen and don't get into trouble either don't complain about him.


Killing the horse your teammate was whistling for is a serious offense too. To see that you are admitting you did it yet don't feel ashamed is troubling. If you don't understand that taking revenge is breaking the rules, I can do nothing for you.

Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2011, 01:39:46 am »
+1
nuffen is known to be an easy trigger though. At least in this case a kick would have been enough. Also Murmillus you should know creating a thread about it when you broke the rules won't help you. I think everybody take revenge like that or make minor violations to the rules from time to time, probably because of RL stress, yet it's not a reason not to punish it when an admin is there.

People that don't like nuffen and don't get into trouble either don't complain about him.


Killing the horse your teammate was whistling for is a serious offense too. To see that you are admitting you did it yet don't feel ashamed is troubling. If you don't understand that taking revenge is breaking the rules, I can do nothing for you.

More than once I admitted my offences, none of which constitute a ban, rev made a point of trying to shut me up with the rules, yet the rules hardly have anything written that would immediately put me in the wrong without tarnishing the person whom caused the problems from the very start three fold, yet I get treated with the same severity as the individual who team-killed me and team-attacked me, yet I never killed anyone and I did not swing the first blow, how can I be treated worse when such facts have been repeated over and over again? Seriously this is a clear case of flawed logic.

The rules presented even partially back my argument up.

If this was real life , you'd have people who've killed burglars in self defence being given the death penalty without a trial, thank fuck it's just a game, hope no admins like nuffen are judges irl, or people's lives would really be unfairly fucked over.

Some day in your life, the tables will turn, roles will be reversed if not by someone you've wronged but just by someone who has the ability to wield and abuse powers to which you have no defence, and karma, if it exists will bite you in the arses.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 01:44:43 am by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2011, 01:48:09 am »
0
More than once I admitted my offences, none of which constitute a ban, rev made a point of trying to shut me up with the rules, yet the rules hardly have anything written that would immediately put me in the wrong without tarnishing the person whom caused the problems from the very start three fold, yet I get treated with the same severity as the individual who team-killed me and team-attacked me, yet I never killed anyone and I did not swing the first blow, how can I be treated worse when such facts have been repeated over and over again? Seriously this is a clear case of flawed logic.

The rules presented even partially back my argument up.

If this was real life, you'd have people who've killed burglars in self defence being given the death penalty without a trial, thank fuck it's just a game, hope no admins like nuffen are judges irl, or people's lives would really be unfairly fucked over.

This is a good point. But failing to punish the first offender doesn't mean the second one shouldn't be punished. What happened exactly to the player that TK'ed you in the first place ?

I'm also convinced a ban was clearly too much. But we need to keep the punishment open for interpretation as people that really want to troll are good at circumventing too clear rules. If you think nuffen is exagerating, I know you are not alone and I'm pretty sure you could build up a solid ban thread case against him and get many supporters.


Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 02:02:04 am »
+1
This is a good point. But failing to punish the first offender doesn't mean the second one shouldn't be punished. What happened exactly to the player that TK'ed you in the first place ?

I'm also convinced a ban was clearly too much. But we need to keep the punishment open for interpretation as people that really want to troll are good at circumventing too clear rules. If you think nuffen is exagerating, I know you are not alone and I'm pretty sure you could build up a solid ban thread case against him and get many supporters.

I agree with you, I should have been punished. A serious warning should have been issued to me, not because I ignored the first verbal warnings but because I actually didn't see them, it's not as if I saw them and didn't give a toss, I literally did not see the warning text whatsoever, I was blocking hits, and giving some back, I was very close to death and trying to stop him getting that last killing blow on me when I got immediately kicked and banned in one go.

After he purposely team-killed me the first time, before the altercation which led to me being banned occurred, I notified chat I had been team-killed on purpose and why he did it, some players suggested I create a ban poll, but as it was the start of the next round I didn't want to disrupt game-play, so In my reasoning I sought to get some form of light petty revenge, not a direct eye for eye action, which I know puts me in a bad position, but remember I did not start hitting him out of the blue, I started attacking the horse he whistled for, he then hit me with an overhead to my face, to which I sought revenge in being able to hit him at least once back in retaliation, since he had a shield I unable to do so with one swing so I repeatedly swung at his shield until I delivered the hit, as I started to walk off he hit me back and so it continued to the point where I got banned.

Since I never actually killed him, and since I was initially acting in self-defence or petty revenge, which did not result in a death of a team-mate as a result of team-killing then I can't see the justification of the harshest form of punishment, nuffen is accusing me of ignoring warnings, but yet has failed to consider other scenarios, like my scenario for instance, when you're close to death and trying to block a 1h spammer with a 2h you have to focus on blocking, not the chat box that's in the bottom left corner of the screen.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 02:05:04 am by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline nuffen

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 02:03:29 am »
0
Yes, if he was just defending himself, it would be too harsh with a ban.
He was not defending himself, he was revenging from the last round. He intentionally vent up to the guy and vent on attacking him for over a minute, with several warnings.
He understands himself that his action was too bad to defend, so he changes the "facts" to adjust em, and people like this is the main reason we, the admins, have to use loads of time to spectate the offenders, as they will make up stuff to make emself look innocent. Therefore, we have to spectate them to make sure they are actually doing the stuff we are gonna accuse em of.
Griefing, revenging a teamkill last round, call it whatever you want, this is not a minor offense.

Ps: he got 3 serious warnings, he ignored em and continued to attack his teammate.

pss: He admits attacking the other guy several times as a revenge, I dont even see what case hes trying to build here.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 02:07:05 am by nuffen »
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Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 02:06:30 am »
0
Yes, if he was just defending himself, it would be too harsh with a ban.
He was not defending himself, he was revenging from the last round. He intentionally vent up to the guy and vent on attacking him for over a minute, with several warnings.
He understands himself that his action was too bad to defend, so he changes the "facts" to adjust em, and people like this is the main reason we, the admins, have to use loads of time to spectate the offenders, as they will make up stuff to make emself look innocent. Therefore, we have to spectate them to make sure they are actually doing the stuff we are gonna accuse em of.
Griefing, revenging a teamkill last round, call it whatever you want, this is not a minor offense.

Ps: he got 3 serious warnings, he ignored em and continued to attack his teammate.

JEEZ NUFFEN LOOK AT SOME FACTS I DID NOT TEAM KILL HIM, HE HIT ME FIRST, how hard is THAT to understand? I DID NOT IGNORE WARNINGS I WAS NOT EVEN AWARE OF THEIR EXISTENCE I assume you can understand basic, if sometimes badly spelt English right?

Lastly, A KICK WOULD HAVE SUFFICED AND NONE OF THIS SHIT WOULD BE POLLUTING THIS FORUM and maybe players who don't choose to lick arse would have more respect for you as an individual.

If this is not a flaw in your intelligence then this Is a deliberate fabrication and exaggeration of facts, to which I flat out deny, more proof of my accusations of your judgement being clouded by your negative bias for some individuals within this community, how are you an admin?!

Why is it the more you post the more my words are proven? Why are some people here blindly unaware of this?

I know you have friends in this community nuffen, that's enough for most people to stick their nose in this business and support you to the ends of the earth but defending nuffens actions is not that of a personal of rational unbiased position and in return who's input to this argument should be considered less credible than initially intended by the poster, whom appears to be trying to form some sort of bandwagon against a player whom they've be-grudged over a period of time for thinking differently to themselves and they dislike and alienate simply for being different of thought, not for actual serious offences, or put simply, you guys don't like me, some of you have buttons to press, so you press them without a second thought or a forethought for that matter, and that's the actions of an irresponsible individual not able to be put in important positions and to be expected to be fair and in turn represent a threat to the community.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 02:18:08 am by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline nuffen

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Re: Another case of unjust usage of the big red ban button.
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 02:10:43 am »
0
JEEZ NUFFEN LOOK AT SOME FACTS I DID NOT TEAM KILL HIM, HE HIT ME FIRST, how hard is THAT to understand? I DID NOT IGNORE WARNINGS I WAS NOT EVEN AWARE OF THEIR EXISTENCE I assume you can understand basic, if sometimes badly spelt English right?

Are you sure that Im the one who dont understand?

*ignores insults, AGAIN*
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