Open Field Battle

[a_bear_irl]

i hate all of you. here's what happened.

1) ATS spawned 60 seconds before DFC
2) ATS starts rushing to DFC spawn
3) (I didn't witness this) ATS allegedly is teleported back to their spawn once they get too close to DFC spawn
4) DFC starts spawning
5) About half of DFC's force is naked or without gear - cav without horses, infantry without armor, etc. These weren't new players, all of DFC/DFC's mercs had prior strat experience and there was plenty of gear as I'm sure goretooth can confirm, this was a bug
6) 20 seconds after spawning, not everyone is spawned yet and people are still trying to figure out what's going on with the gear
7) ATS shieldwall appears over the hill
8) ATS bumrushes spawn, because we had no chance to organize and half our players weren't geared properly we get overrun
9) Spawn capped, match ends

Now, ATS is claiming all of DFC was spawned, there were only a couple naked guys, etc. This is false. We had about 45 players in game and there was not anywhere near that number on the field. About half of those spawned didn't have gear.

ATS and their braindamaged sycophants claim this battle was won fairly and should not be reverted - this is ridiculous. Not only was DFC only half-ready due to a bug and the 60 second spawntimer, ATS abused the spawn delay (clearly, time meant for defense to set up, not for a spawn rush). I feel that DFC's gear should be returned and the battle re-fought tomorrow, hopefully without any bugs and without ATS abusing poorly thought out game mechanics.

It is truly unfortunate that ATS is so full of infantile powergamers that they would shun a fun, large scale field battle and instead opt for what amounts to exploiting in order to gain some e-turf.

[Kong Ming]

Here's the video, form what opinions you will.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgGrZYu0TII

[SeQuel]

i hate all of you. here's what happened.

1) ATS spawned 60 seconds before DFC
2) ATS starts rushing to DFC spawn
3) (I didn't witness this) ATS allegedly is teleported back to their spawn once they get too close to DFC spawn
4) DFC starts spawning
5) About half of DFC's force is naked or without gear - cav without horses, infantry without armor, etc. These weren't new players, all of DFC/DFC's mercs had prior strat experience and there was plenty of gear as I'm sure goretooth can confirm, this was a bug
6) 20 seconds after spawning, not everyone is spawned yet and people are still trying to figure out what's going on with the gear
7) ATS shieldwall appears over the hill
8) ATS bumrushes spawn, because we had no chance to organize and half our players weren't geared properly we get overrun
9) Spawn capped, match ends

Now, ATS is claiming all of DFC was spawned, there were only a couple naked guys, etc. This is false. We had about 45 players in game and there was not anywhere near that number on the field. About half of those spawned didn't have gear.

ATS and their braindamaged sycophants claim this battle was won fairly and should not be reverted - this is ridiculous. Not only was DFC only half-ready due to a bug and the 60 second spawntimer, ATS abused the spawn delay (clearly, time meant for defense to set up, not for a spawn rush). I feel that DFC's gear should be returned and the battle re-fought tomorrow, hopefully without any bugs and without ATS abusing poorly thought out game mechanics.

It is truly unfortunate that ATS is so full of infantile powergamers that they would shun a fun, large scale field battle and instead opt for what amounts to exploiting in order to gain some e-turf.

Half od DFC? I only see 4, but ecko says 5. Also, we didnt rush you as we got banded back to our spawn. You didn't get rdy in time, thats a fail on your teams fault.

Video above for proof.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Here's the video, form what opinions you will.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgGrZYu0TII

This says it all really, thanks for posting.  Now hopefully some of this BS will die down (although I must confess, I relish destroying these pathetic attempts at counter-arguments put forward)

[a_bear_irl]

You only see a couple in the video, but there were more people without armor than shown there and lots more who didn't spawn with all of their gear, just some. Enough players spawned without gear that it caused us to stall for long enough for you to finish rushing our spawn. Ecko isn't to be trusted. It is known. Also, we weren't ready because we had no time to get ready. We had 20 seconds to get ready with a bunch of our guys all fucked up, you guys took 50 without any gear issues.

[Diomedes]

I'd support a re-fight, if only to have a more interesting battle with such good gear/players/commanders.  It's also good to expunge such bitterness about a game.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

I'd support a re-fight, if only to have a more interesting battle with such good gear/players/commanders.  It's also good to expunge such bitterness about a game.

There will be part 2 tomorrow, anyone who wants a rematch can show up for that instead

[a_bear_irl]

There will be part 2 tomorrow, anyone who wants a rematch can show up for that instead

yeah definitely will be a good rematch considering you exploited to take all of dfc's gear

[SeQuel]

Considering we had NOTHING to do with this "exploit" we never did.

[Gash]

Exploiting? lol... sigh...

Instead of considering the fact that you didn't hire enough people, the gear you bought, the lack of co-ordination and organization (regardless of how much time alloted) and the skill of the soldiers you hired?

How is it I was able to organize my end so quickly both times when we had to respawn?


Here's a screenshot of the video showing the tab-list when we we're still half-way across the map.  You had 7 guys not spawned in. By the time we got there, everyone was alive.

4 guys are naked. The rest chose that yellow armor or chainmail.

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I agree that the map was small.

But instead of calling us out on exploiting... look to your own end first.

I could have sat in spawn going WTF? Why did we all teleport?  But I didn't - just re-organized quickly and went on the offense.

Apologies to the attackers if I didn't halt my troops to have a beer and give you time to prepare your defenses...

I don't like the capping-the-spawn thing. But unfortuantely, its part of the game, so my game-plan goes accordingly. I was just as concerned you would aim for the same objective and left folks to defend our spawn point.

However, had there been no cap-the-spawn, we would have just been spawn-killing you guys for 30 minutes until all 2000 tickets were gone.

[Mouse]

Examine the video. Here is the most unbiased explanation I can offer.

At 1:44 we see the team lists. A total of 7 people have not spawned on LLJK. It looks like only 1 has not spawned on ATS. LLJK has approximately 20-30 more seconds for those last 7 people to spawn before the ATS infantry engages them.

Carefully watching and pausing every second from the time LLJK is more or less visible after 2:00, I am able to count 4 people who are naked. Two of them have weapons, one appears to have nothing, and one appears to have only arrows.

At 2:20, Zanthos attacks two people who look like they were supposed to be cavalry, because they appear to be using lances but do not have a horse. At least one is able to play cavalry, since he attempts to get on a courser.

But I do not see any player who spawned with armor but no weapons at any point in the video. The video is not the best quality, but it's clear enough that had a number of people spawned weaponless that I would expect to be able to spot one.

I was present during the battle and did not see in public chat that there were any spawning issues at all for LLJK. It is important to say immediately in public if something appears to be broken. I only recall seeing very few naked people and I do not recall seeing anyone else running around weaponless.

ATS did have at least one player spawn without a weapon, but that was a mistake on our side, not a problem with cRPG.

Spectators did clog up the server at the very beginning, an issue not visible in the YouTube video of the battle that affected both teams, and this is something that should be addressed by chadz.

[hotcobbler]

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[Ylca]

I love how the claim is 4 guys are naked when you can clearly see 5 or so guys naked on the side that the flailing camera shows alone, then when he moves towards the center of the field even more naked bodies.

Let's pretend the 5 number is accurate though. If there were 45 guys 5 of which were naked and 7 not spawned let's see that's only 12 of 45 guys not fit for fight. I mean i guess you can call it a major win and a poor choice of tactics as you guys have been so quick to do when you roll over a force that's lost 26.6% of it's force before the battle even starts.

Do you guys even read what you write sometimes? By your own admission this was nowhere near a fair fight and certainly isn't something i'd expect anyone to be bragging or showing bravado about. I honestly thought that the "e-bushido" was just posturing in good fun, but it seems you guys honestly feel you've accomplished something here.

Also that video didn't come close to showing the full battle. Grainy quality, only one angle, the cameraman died before he stopped having apparent hand seizures and jerking the camera about.

But to toss all that aside i'd like a question answered: Why do you feel it is an accolade worthy victory defeating an enemy that hasn't even fully spawned yet? I'm honestly curious. You make a lot of claims about trolling, but if i showed up for a pickup basketball game, half my team didn't show up and i ended up playing 2 v 8, they won, then proceeded to act as though they'd conquered the third reich- i'd say that was pretty much the definition of trolling.

Well that or painfully low standards.

[Xol!]

I don't think anyone blames ATS for taking advantage of the retarded spawning and flag cap system.  Better to win the battle and sort out the other crap later.  The fact of the matter is that the fast majority of our players were missing gear, and that threw us for a loop, which ATS took advantage of.  Of our 10-ish cav units, maybe 3 had horses.  People were missing bits of gear all over the place.  I myself spawned naked not once, but twice, despite having a helmet, mail, greaves, mitts, a horse, and a weapon equipped (of which we had 100-400 of each).  I did state that we were having issues at the beginning of the battle.  You can actually see my comment at the bottom of the second scoreboard shot posted above:
([Xol_dfc]  I like that we randomly spawned naked)

Aside from the equipment issue, the spawning system is fucked for open field battles.  I'm sure it helps defenders get ready in siege, but on open-field maps (especially small ones), it's both unrealistic and unbalanced.  There's no reason attackers should be fighting on their own flag less than a minute into the round.  It's not the flag capping that's the issue, it's the spawn system.  It needs to be changed somehow.

On a side note, both sides acted horrendously in the aftermath of the battle, and frankly it's an embarrassment to the community.   I think everyone was justifiably upset; ATS thought we were trying to rob them of a victory, and we felt cheated because of the way the battle unfolded.  I'd like to apologize for my own comments, and while I can't speak for the rest of my clan or my clan's affiliates, I think posting personal information is taking it too far, and have told several of my clanmates to refrain from sharing that information.

Rather than spending another two to three days shit talking, I think it would be far more productive to discuss ideas and solutions.  This is a beta.  We're supposed to be making the game better for everyone playing it, but that doesn't count for anything if we drive away half the community with petty behavior.

[Ylca]

If you want to make a spawn system that penalizes large losses:

1. Both sides spawn at the same time in field maps.
2. Defense gets a 30 second advantage in village/castle defense
3. On the first spawn wave everyone spawns at once the spawn limit doesn't start until 2 minutes into the battle (these things are supposed to last more than 5 minutes after all).
4. After the initial 2 minutes limit spawning as you see fit but for the love of god perhaps test it a bit before making the change before a set of major battles.
5. Reap the benefits of a balanced spawn system.