BARMACE!@$@#%#!@^

[Formless]

Between 2) and 3) anyone who isn't using a strenght build himself can hit you and break your swing. Overhead is slow and needs a lot of strenght to be effective.

That is not accurate, especially if the Str build concentrates on blocking first then counterattacking:

STR Build
21/15

IF 7
PS 7
WPF 149

vs

AGility Build
12/24

IF 4
PS 4
WPF 173

The Extra 24 wpf will not let the agility guy hit you again after his attack turn is over and yours is about to begin.  The only thing he can do is try moving or jumping out of the way.  If he does that he will forefit his attack phase letting you attack with overhead again.  In this way in 2 to 3 overhead strikes you can chase an agility guy into the grave as long as you keep your head straight and follow him quickly. 

Like I said crushthrough in the way Crpg is now makes no sense at all.  The mechanics of the game simply favour this style of play too much.

[Ishar]

I don't have a problem with the barmace by its stats. OK, a bit long, a bit powerful, but in a duel, I can handle it no problem because of its speed.
The problem is, it looks too much like a 2H sword (like a cleaver for example). I often find myself in a somewhat larger battle, blocking, hitting back, etc. And then comes a bar mace, and I press block, just like against all the other swordsmen, and BANG crushthrough.

I don't think there's anything that could be done with it or something. Guess I just jumped on the whinewagon for a ride.

[Casimir]

Rock, Paper, Scissor.

[Formless]

Rock, Paper, Scissor.

Pudding, Chair, Newspaper. 

That means nothing too.

[Vygar]

Like I said crushthrough in the way Crpg is now makes no sense at all.  The mechanics of the game simply favour this style of play too much.

I completely agree.  There is simply no reason to grant the ability to completely bypass defenses.  1H users have no such access to weapons that will bypass the manual block so why are 2h/pole arm wielders given the ability to render shields useless?  Just stack some heavy armor along with your lolhammer and you're golden. 

[EponiCo]

Which is kind of what interests me, too - is the barmace build really spamable by a build that it blockcrushes? It's 23 points faster than hammer and if the 21/15 build blockcrushes me with 15/21 I don't know if that's enough to retaliate (the option to stay out of reach often does not exist, in entrances for example, where the hammer users have been lurking since this game was made). It would nice to test the actual results.

[Paprik]

All a competant person playing Crpg with a barmace has to do to get a great K:D is to play in this way:

1.)  Approach an opponent
2.)  Block the first strike from opponent
3.)  Retaliate by an overhead swing
4.)  Repeat as necessary.

Except when this person does 3., you dodge while slashing him. If he repeats, you repeat. Win.

The Extra 24 wpf will not let the agility guy hit you again after his attack turn is over and yours is about to begin. The only thing he can do is try moving or jumping out of the way. If he does that he will forefit his attack phase letting you attack with overhead again.  In this way in 2 to 3 overhead strikes you can chase an agility guy into the grave as long as you keep your head straight and follow him quickly.

Except you can attack while moving/jumping. Also you forgot that the agi build has Athletics at 6-8 which is pretty much enough to win just by clever footwork. If for some reason a player is not skilled enough to face such opponent, then again Athletics comes into play and you can get the fuck out and get some help from teammates.

Any valid arguments?

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

Pudding, Chair, Newspaper. 

That means nothing too.

Quite the opposite: pudding is yummy, chairs are comfy and newspapers tend to have pretty interesting stuff in them. Your analogy expresses how fun the mod is.

Also I cannot understand why people are so upset over getting a little hard time playing a computer game: 'you win some, loose some it's all the same to me' as a great poet once sang. [A♠]

[slothscott]

Also, crushthrough is determined by a formula that includes momentum and how long you hold the mace above your head, so you can't spam it without retreating first.

Is this true? If so that would stomp on any pure overhead spam.

[Astinus]

I seem to get crush throughs every time with it, with a balanced build.

and I crush through so rarely that in the end I come back to the great maul when I want some lolcrush. And I have 24 str and 8 ps 

I feel taht the bar mace is just a short 2handed with good blunt damage with the addition of an occasional crushthrough, nothing special, nothing overpowered

[Ishar]

Momentum definitely counts, and as far as I know, holding it for a second or so helps too. Holding it for longer won't add more bonus though.
Still, an str build has the crushthrough effect without these bonus factors, with pure overhead spam, sooo... basically, they don't matter that much. Facehugging helps against it by the way. A lot.

I feel taht the bar mace is just a short 2handed with good blunt damage with the addition of an occasional crushthrough, nothing special, nothing overpowered

That's exactly my problem. It's too much like a regular 2H sword - and the crushthrough comes as a surprise sometimes.

[Danath]

People in this topic who are defending the bar mace clearly have no idea how nasty it is.

We have a guy with 24 Str and he CRUSHES EVERY SINGLE BLOW. Huscarl shields are like butter to this guy's character and bar mace.

His unbeatable. His speed 93 barmace out-swings all good polearms and the thing is not short. Granted if it was 65 length then OK you have a decent chance to fight back.

But in the usual you hit first, he blocks, he then hits back.... err... what do you do, block? I don't think so. Backpeddle? His bar mace is far too long to manage to get away - unless your a 25 agi ninja, so what do you do?

You die.

It's a Great Maul with more range and speed. It's insane.

Great Maul's are nasty too but at least you have a slight chance to win if you have a 99 speed 1h or have a longish 2h weapon. Not possible to fight a competent person with a bar mace (and high PS).

Anyone that says otherwise clearly has little experience with fighting a high str char that uses a bar mace and should not reply

[Ishar]

Danath, I think I found an inspirational video that will solve your problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfg5d2w0Iao

[slothscott]

Danath the best way to find weaknesses for something is to try it out, I suggest you go make a barmacer and see how easily you will get smashed by any 2her/polearmer that has the least amount of skill.

[Danath]

Sure I could go buy a bar mace for my zero 2H WPP char with 6 PS and crush through nothing and swing like a turtle, and get killed in the process. Sure, I could do that.

Clearly its a terrible test or example. Someone with 150 WPP and 8 PS will pwn everyone. His a good player too, but still killable, but with the barmace, his unblockable.

Unblockable fast good-range weapon. Think about that for a minute. Theres no cramming in 2 swings for his 1. You swing first with your long weapon, he blocks, he swings at you, you get stunned and damaged, then you block again (as you cant immediately swing back when stunned obviously), or try to, you get stunned and damaged again, and you die.

I just run like a little bitch now when I see him screaming at team mates to come kill him LOL