Author Topic: Buff throwing!!!  (Read 3048 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 02:10:48 am »
-1
Throwing weapons fly too slowly still.  And throwing lance number should be increased per slot.  My first char was a lance thrower.  It just isn't worth it anymore.

Yup because 1-hitting luck-class should be in the game, and is totally fun for everybody. Oh wait..
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Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2011, 11:16:18 pm »
0
i dont really understand the rational behind the accuracy ratings on the weapons.  heavier objects are more accurate, whaaa?

as others said, missile speed needs to be increase, or decrease the pullback/throw times

damage really needs to be boosted on the medium & higher tier weapons.

longbows require less stat commitment and infinitely more deadly

one thing that would help alot was if the WPF penalty for medium armors wasnt so bad for throwers

I agree with you for the most part. In the case of accuracy, the lower tier weapons will end up more accurate because they require less PT to use. The higher PT requirement for the good weapons lowers your WPF and kills your accuracy so no real problem there.

Otherwise I agree with you 100%. The doubled stacks don't matter much because it now takes usually twice as many to kill anyone, not to mention the reduced projectile speed was a needless change so most of those weapons end up in the ground anyway. The accuracy fix and heirloom buffs were great though. I just think we were honestly better off before the increased stacks though. The trade off isn't worth it. I'd rather have less and do reasonable damage then more and have my damage cut severely.

One of the side effects of 1 slot is that it costs more to use the better stuff now and it's heavier to load up now as well (right?) I go broke trying to use my heirloomed spears let alone if I get sick of not being able to kill plate and take a lance.

Also yeah, I think we're restricted a little too much in the way of armor. I can understand stiff armors effecting throwing, but we should be able to at least wear low end medium armor before our WPF starts to tank.

All things combined, the lowered projectile speed means they can walk directly to you and all it takes to dodge is to wiggle around. The lower damage means you can't kill someone in armor before they get to you to kill you. (I have been told if we're using cut weapons, that we should just pretend that they are "bouncing off"  :lol:) You can't outrun them because you're weighed down. And you can't defeat them in melee because you don't have enough melee wpf, and are restricted to the lightest armors. As soon as you get hit once you're dead.

They're never going to touch throwing again now that it's "fixed" but I think a lot of the changes are conflicting with each other. I've been told that the devs don't want people to have high levels of PT or PD. I'm fine with that as long as the changes work with that philosophy. Unfortunately the changes have made balanced agi/str builds near useless and everyone is going back to their roided powerthrowers. I just want the devs to make up their minds so I don't have to respec EVERY single patch.  :(


Over all I think the patch has become a free rein for all the long time players with plate armor and money to burn. Talking to a lot of new players, they're giving up in frustration because they can't make enough money to have a chance against vets, who are near untouchable in loomed plate. The change for new players not paying upkeep for a while is a nice change, but not really a proper solution. With rare exception, eventually it still comes down to a battle of money instead of skill. A man in plate armor with a crossbow on his back, outrunning you and one hitting you with a bec de corban, while shrugging off being a pin cushion of arrows and throwing weapons... That's pretty much everything wrong with this mod rolled into one very viable build.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 11:19:50 pm by Cheap_Shot »
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Digglez

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 01:16:02 am »
0
A man in plate armor with a crossbow on his back, outrunning you and one hitting you with a bec de corban, while shrugging off being a pin cushion of arrows and throwing weapons... That's pretty much everything wrong with this mod rolled into one very viable build.

Well said.  I'm lucky if I get 3 throws off before I get gutted when someone is 20ft away and i'm back peddling.  My accuracy is prob lower than 15% if i'm not using extremely light armor

Offline MadJackMcMad

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2011, 11:35:51 pm »
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Make each 2 slots.  Increase Damage significantly, Increase Accuracy significantly. 

Changes which go against spam and reward precision.
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Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2011, 09:14:44 am »
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Make each 2 slots.  Increase Damage significantly, Increase Accuracy significantly. 

Changes which go against spam and reward precision.

Apart from the accuracy increase, which we got and was needed, that would basically be rolling back the last patch. Two slot throwing weapons was causing a nasty pick up bug that they couldn't fix however. I think everything is more or less fine right now, except for damage and projectile speed and weight restrictions. I have no idea why speed needed to be lowered. It may have been a global ranged decision, but throwing was already so god damn slow. Now it's impossible to hit anyone anywhere but the back. If someone sees you throwing at them you're dead.

The problem with damage is a global problem. I don't believe the recent changes involving cut and the like were good. That is a whole different argument however. In relation to throwing though, it made anything but the most expensive and heavy weapons completely useless against anyone armored.

The problem with weight is that anything heavier then I think 9lbs of armor starts reducing your wpf. This pretty much kills hybrids completely. This and the athletics killing weight of carrying throwing spears, jarids  or lances which are the only things that don't "bounce off" plate wearers.

In the end, the patch introduced quite a few changes supporting hybrids as the only viable choice, but then added just as many changes that removed that viability and seemed to support the opposite. It's not even a middle ground situation, it seems more like the devs couldn't make up their minds or something. Two potential throwing archetypes are possible. While it would be difficult to have balance and have both styles viable, it would at least be easy to support one. Instead neither really work. Its frustrating.
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Camaris

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 11:02:14 am »
+1
I think you are right with your oppinion about armor.
Throwers are no archers and should be able to wear medium armor without penalties.
They however should have a very high increase if they go further in armor.

Offline Baron Samedi

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2011, 11:53:44 am »
+1
I too feel like the "buff throwing" patch was an honest fail. More ammo, ok, but less speed, less damage.
I've used heavy throwing axe for a long time now so i pretty much know its pattern, yet i can't hit anyone aware of my presence cauz' of that damn speed. Even if the guy is easily predictable, if he's not 5 meters away he has the time to drink a coffee and smoke a cig before even considering dodging.
I masterworked those axe to become a huge "raw" damage dealer, shootting tanks and horses as supporting melee and archers, yet with the new armour value, i really don't feel the damage on the medium armor anymore (i won't talk about heavy one's... Cheap_shot cartoons covered it all). And since after the first hit the guy knows you're here, you just have to pray that he burns himself drinking his coffee while covering the distance to get you.

In the end, the patch introduced quite a few changes supporting hybrids as the only viable choice, but then added just as many changes that removed that viability and seemed to support the opposite. It's not even a middle ground situation, it seems more like the devs couldn't make up their minds or something. Two potential throwing archetypes are possible. While it would be difficult to have balance and have both styles viable, it would at least be easy to support one. Instead neither really work. Its frustrating.

+1. As an hybrid (lets say 120-130 wpf, 7 pt), you have to choose : get a medium armor and hope that people will try to stop your stuff with their head cauz you're damage will be really, really lowered. Or get a light armor and... get lucky : our position is around the melee, at medium and close range, we need to be able to take at least one hit without rolling and crying in foetal position...

Overall, its not really a complaint because i know pretty much nothing will be done, yet i miss pre patch : four slots used, 8 axes, every lauch had it cost, but i knew every hit was a world of pain.

Anyway, luv to all throwers, even the shielder's one. Peace.

Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2011, 08:37:13 pm »
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Thanks bro. Words of truth. For the problem with damage, see this thread. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,13736.0.html

Some good solid points are made about cut weapons at the moment and I think his most supported suggestion of increasing cut armour penetration slightly would completely solve the damage problems on this end. It would solve a lot of other problems too really.

For the rest of it, put projectile speed back up, and raise the bar for how much armour can be worn before effecting throwing wpf. It doesn't make much sense currently wither you use a realism argument or a game balance argument.

Do those things and throwing will be 100% balanced. Just three things, one of them being an important issue of it's own that should be addressed anyway.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 08:38:52 pm by Cheap_Shot »
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline YourLord

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2011, 02:31:53 pm »
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Give me mah projectile SPEED!!!
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Offline Xant

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2011, 03:08:01 pm »
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Throwing's cool now. Good to damage someone from afar but not good as a stand-alone class. Like it should be. It's a "sidearm" now.
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Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2011, 06:05:46 pm »
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Throwing's cool now. Good to damage someone from afar but not good as a stand-alone class. Like it should be. It's a "sidearm" now.

But it's not. You cant use it with armor due to WPF reduction, so who would use it as a sidearm? Must be like two people, because everyone just uses a crossbow. You can wear all the armor you want with those, they have 2 to 3 times the ammo, and do the same amount of damage or more now with less then a fraction of the requirements heaped onto throwing. Not to mention that the only good throwing weapons require a lot of powerthrow and just don't fit into a hybrid build. If you wan't a sidearm, crossbows seem immune to the slew of "realism" nerfs that the devs seem to only need to apply to bows and throwing.

I'm having a hard time believing that you've even picked up a throwing weapon lately.
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Digglez

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2011, 06:08:40 pm »
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Amen cheapshot.  They should lower the requirement per PT in half at least.  This will still prevent people in plate using throwing lances and whatnot.  People in non-plate armor should be able to throw heavy axes and javelins without any penalty really

Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2011, 06:23:05 pm »
+1
Amen cheapshot.  They should lower the requirement per PT in half at least.  This will still prevent people in plate using throwing lances and whatnot.  People in non-plate armor should be able to throw heavy axes and javelins without any penalty really

Yeah. And it's actually funny, because you would think that crossbows would be the MOST difficult thing to operate while wearing plate. Throwing you just pick up something and huck it. Bows, you draw an arrow and pull it back with a bowstring. Could be done wearing plate if you didn't wear gloves or something. Crossbows though, it's a lot more of a process, which even involves bending over. Bending over in plate? Interesting.
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Fasader

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2011, 06:36:41 pm »
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agreed with op.
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Offline Palestinian

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Re: Buff throwing!!!
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2011, 01:35:07 am »
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Great thread, very productive. I have nothing really to contribute but my 1+. I agree with the sentiments of OP. The latest buff for throwing was in name only; I can have more rocks but they fly at a greatly slower speed.

As for the throwing lance I agree it's a bit useless for a dedicated thrower.