Author Topic: Archery Nerfed  (Read 17413 times)

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Offline Keshian

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #105 on: July 15, 2011, 05:54:48 pm »
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Did you ever played a crossbowman? Create a Skip for fun char and do it. You will see that they have some disadvantages. At the moment xbows are maybe a bit better than bows, especially at low level, but they have their weaknesses. Skirmishing for example is way more effective with Archery.

Actually using a mw light xbow you can now skirmish much more effectively than most archers thanks to last patch.

That archer was probably an 8 powerdraw longbow user, about the only archers I see anymore.  Tried it on my skip the fun alt and it was pretty lame, as you are still shooting wet noodles as the shoot speed of all bows are all around the same unlike xbows where each stronger xbow gets an additional 3 to 6 shoot speed so that th strongest xbow and weakest xbow have 17 different shoot speed, compared to the weakest and strongestbow only being 3 different in shoot speed (the realism argument guy that nerfed archers I guess likes selective realism because that bit of nonsense makes absolutely no sense a tiny short bow shooting as far as a long bow).
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 05:55:49 pm by Keshian »
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Offline KING_UGBERT

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #106 on: July 15, 2011, 10:21:32 pm »
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I actually miss the days when Kesh was an heirloomed demon.  When I first joined as a peasant, we would all band around her and prepare for Lady Gaga to romp in on her epic horse with that mace that blew faces off.  Goretooth and a few others were godly, and it was a blast trying to land my throwing my lances with Native to save my team.  Talk about a challenge.  I was surprised when most of the regulars stuck around when they were dethroned from the patches.  I switched to archery after they nerfed throwing (especially lances) so badly that it stopped being a class.  Kesh really persisted and took the blows of being nerfed admirably; probably because archers were still fun to play.  I think it says a lot as to how bad this patch is that she would ever consider respeccing as a melee character.  I've already seen a lot of dedicated archers dropping out or using alts (myself included).

Most players agree that things were fairly balanced pre-patch, and at the least, it was a blast to play.  I loved Xbows sniping from around corners and killing me when I wasn't careful enough.  Horse Archers were always a pain, but I felt like a good counter to them because I could stay behind tree cover and really send them running if I was skilled enough.  I'd punish 2 handers for not bringing a shield along, and run like mad after trying for a very occasional foot shot on shielders (the shields somehow invisibly cover 96% of their bodies).  Good horse lancers used their range to their advantage, while bad lancers died by rushing in when the enemy was prepared.  Everyone had a few complaints here and there, but in general the game flowed really smoothly.

I lament the horrible feeling and range of archery post patch.  When the patch came out, I thought that bows felt like slingshots -but I like the wet noodle description too.  I sometimes hear people talking about fixing this patch by balancing the lower bow speed with increased damage, but it would be inappropriate to turn bows into slow motion shotguns.  We need our arrow speed back.  30% or whatever isn't a nerf, its a deathblow.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 10:28:47 pm by KING_UGBERT »
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Offline Mannhammer

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2011, 01:09:20 am »
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No no no... you got all wrong. Kesh never had any skill. According to some....
(click to show/hide)

And for the record you were a terror before the first archer nerf. On many occasions you one shot my charger then one shot me(in full gothic plate) as I was getting up. But I never bitched because if I managed to run you down it was a real accomplishment. No more are the days that killing an archer is hard. But I guess I'm one of those few players that wants all classes to be good because that's where the real game challenge is made, not through stupid nerfs.   
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Offline Seawied

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2011, 01:12:45 am »
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Played native again today. It was refreshing to be in a game where archers were something more than a minor annoyance.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Mtemtko

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2011, 01:23:21 am »
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Played native again today. It was refreshing to be in a game where archers were something more than a minor annoyance.

Native? You mean another paradise for xbowmen right?
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Offline Keshian

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2011, 07:10:39 am »
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Manhammer, I appreciate the comment.  But frankly don't bother arguing with DaveUKR, no one has a bigger ego in the EU (I remember he was arrogant enough to kill teammates in Strategus all the time to get their xbow and bolts "because he could do better with them"). 

Frankly though by his argument xbows should lose 20 shoot speed because they would be buffed then as it would be more "skill-based".  Quite honestly he would suck balls trying to shoot with that low a shoot speed as his main thing is to hide far away from combat take an insanely far shot with sniper rifle accuracy using the arbalest and then go hide some more.  And i do think he is a good long range shot, but if his class was nerfed to crap he might reconsider his specialized focus.

By the way the xbows of the middle ages were like shotguns today, huge power but shitty accuracy.  Bows had far more accuracy (part of that is there is a much smaller directing part of the mechanism leading the shot (i.e. the bolt travels a few inches before leaving the xbow, whereas the arrow slides along the bow shaft for its full length before releasing which helps direct it in a straight line).  Bows like the longbow didn't arc like this in-game unless you were doing 400 meter shots (which should be inaccurate at that range), but within a 100 meters it should fire as levelly as any xbow if not more so.  It certainly should have better accuracy.

Now, not only do arrows travel so slowly that supporting melee characters in combat is a  recipe for disaster (used to be one of my favorite skills), but the damage of every cut bow using the lower shoot speed and the higher absorption speed of the new armor changes is clsoe to nothing.  I can be shot by any cut bow archer at least 5 times before dying, often 8 or more times and I am wearing mid-tier armor (cavalry robe x3 and mail gauntlets x3).  The only remotely effective archers left have exactly 1 build: 8 powerdraw, 150+ wpf, Masterwork longbow user.  I have been a skirmisher archer since the beginning shooting into combat and now my entire class of archery is defunct.  I can choose to switch to the slow longbow user and I have played around with it, but it still doesn't allow me to shoot as melee support, in general its purpose is rather limited to siege defense and only lightly damaging archer volleys behind siege shields (and you don't need low shoot speed to do archer volleys, they existed before in strategus).

The main reason I am almost certain to respec once the peasant phase of strategus battles passes, is that I owe it to my clan to actually be an effective player, which archery is the only class that this is no longer truly the case with its extremely limited role now.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 08:11:07 am by Keshian »
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2011, 11:06:43 pm »
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Archers are so insanely overpowered on native. Mtemtko: archers >> crossbowmen in native.
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Offline Mtemtko

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #112 on: July 17, 2011, 01:38:23 am »
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Archers are so insanely overpowered on native. Mtemtko: archers >> crossbowmen in native.

I know, I can 3 shot anyone and not one cav gets near me without an arrow in its face because of the pinpoint accuracy.. but I still wonder.. why are there so many xbowmen in native? Alot more common than archers.
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Offline Gawin

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #113 on: July 17, 2011, 02:33:46 am »
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I know, I can 3 shot anyone and not one cav gets near me without an arrow in its face because of the pinpoint accuracy.. but I still wonder.. why are there so many xbowmen in native? Alot more common than archers.
the reload is faster

Offline Raki

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #114 on: July 17, 2011, 03:01:54 pm »
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yeah, reloading a siege xbow in Native takes about as much time as reloading a hunting xbow in cRPG :|

Either way, I played some siege on my 2her yesterday and I noticed 3 archers trying to shoot me from the walls. After about 15-20 arrows fired at me, they finally gave up because 0 of them hit me. That might be my 6 athletics and my cloth armor helping me a bit, but I also had no problem dodging arrows on my throwing alt with 1 athletics.
I believe that might be a hint telling us that the projectile speed of arrows is a tad too low.

Offline Danath

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #115 on: July 17, 2011, 04:54:51 pm »
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I'm too lazy to read all this but I just made an archery char for the first time to test archery finally.

And WOW archery sucks HARD In this mod. It's garbage.

I might as well be shooting people with a super soaker. The aim is awful, slow, and weak (unless you get even slower long bow).

Just WOW. What a peice of crap class. The whingers did a great job destroying the archer class lol  :D

YOu just dont realise how nerfed and shit this class is until you spend the time to make an archer class. I'm level 15 and this guy is poo.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #116 on: July 17, 2011, 04:56:14 pm »
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To be fair, all level 15 archers are poo regardless of patches.

Try a STF to test a level 30.

Thank you though for actually trying it out before babbling about it like a lot of other people do.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 04:57:26 pm by Tears_of_Destiny »
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Offline Bulzur

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #117 on: July 17, 2011, 05:02:25 pm »
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To be fair, all level 15 archers are poo regardless of patches.

Try a STF to test a level 30.

Thank you though for actually trying it out before babbling about it like a lot of other people do.
Yep, but lv15 inf can go pure Str (18 str at least, if no converted points, so 21 easily, and 7 PS) and already kill lv30 people. Same for xbows, since the damage always stay the same.
Archers are just... the worst till lv25. Then...the worst since patch.  :mrgreen:
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Offline Danath

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #118 on: July 17, 2011, 05:05:11 pm »
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Also I want to add, I'm not an awful aimer, but unless you are in the 10% of archers in this game you are going to have a VERY hard time actually getting any kills.

90% of archers in this mod will only be a pest to the enemy by bombarding them with weak arrow fire in hope it distracts them or stuns them for your team, thats about it.

Sadly just pull out an xbow slap in a spare 50WPP and it very easily competes with the archer class.

Currently the archer class IMHO is a Mosquito pest class to enemy. Job is solely about menacing the enemy team. If you enjoy not killing anyone and missing 80% of your shots choose to be an Archer

Info over

Offline Gorath

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Re: Archery Nerfed
« Reply #119 on: July 18, 2011, 05:57:11 am »
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I dunno, Mango_ATS (or whatever) is doing remarkably well as an archer who takes off 50% of my kuyak/wisby gloves wearing str/builder melee per arrow and lands damn near all of the shots.  Maybe he's just really good compared to most?  Damatacus_ATS is similar, as is another one all doing the same godly damage per arrow and nailing crazy accurate shots.  Perhaps they have a better build than most?
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